+- 6.5 Grendel Forum (https://65grendel.com)
+-- Forum: 6.5 GRENDEL DISCUSSION FORUMS (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: 6.5 Grendel ARs and Other Semi-Autos (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Thread: Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? (/showthread.php?tid=18975)
Pages:
1
2
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - Michael-95037 - 05-17-2019
I've got an 18" Wilson Combat Recon Tactical barrel and Q-comp muzzle brake on back order, but I'm really wanting to build my rifle NOW. I'm feeling like I have "kid at Christmas" syndrome. I can get a 20" Wilson Combat Hunter barrel (not threaded -- no muzzle brake) shipped immediately.
This is for a hunting (boar) gun that will see an equal amount of time target shooting at a friends private range (200-800 yards -- He's a lucky guy). I've been using a Browning A-Bolt BOSS in .270 Winchester for my pig hunting so far. The BOSS gives it .243 recoil. It's a great hunting gun, but I can't shoot it as much as I'd like at the range due to a past should injury. 5-10 shots and my shoulder is done for the day.
As for recoil, since I have never shot a Grendel and have a damaged shoulder, will a muzzle brake really make a difference, or am I overthinking the whole recoil thing? My 5.56x45 AR-15 has around 3-4 ft/lbs of recoil energy (No problem at all), I'm guessing my .270 with the BOSS is around 11-12 ft/lbs (with my shoulder, that's about my limit). According to my online research, the Grendel is close the 9 ft/lbs. Do you think I'll need a muzzle brake to be able to shoot 50-100 shots in a day or am I over analyzing?
Thanks!
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - A5BLASTER - 05-17-2019
50 to 100 yards. No a muzzle brake inst needed.
If going out to range say 400 hundred or more yards it does help keep sight picture and watch bullet vapor and bullet impact.
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - daved20319 - 05-17-2019
I'm recoil sensitive as well, although in my case, it's because I'm a wimp, not an injury
. For me, a .223 is fun to shoot, auto or bolt, but a .243 isn't. I'm building a bolt action Grendel right now, and it's ending up lighter than I expected. I was going to just wait and see, but then decided to just go ahead and order a brake. Once I've got everything in hand and get to the range for the first time, I'll try it without, then install the brake if I think it's necessary. BTW, just in case you don't know this already, it's not just recoil energy that causes issues, it's also recoil velocity, the punch vs. the shove. All else being equal, a higher recoil velocity will hurt more. Later.Dave
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - Lemonaid - 05-17-2019
No one but you knows how much recoil will effect you, but I suggest you get a threaded barrel to have the option if you need/want it.
I just added a pachmeyer recoil pad that was on a unused stock to my Magpul moe stock. The magpul has a fairly thin somewhat hard pad and after a while I was questioning if the slight discomfort was starting to degrade my accuracy (possible start of flinch).
Many barrel makers (most) have threaded barrels as a standard feature so If you are in a hurry, there are lots of options including the group buy barrels.
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - Michael-95037 - 05-17-2019
Lemonaid, I keep reading about "group buy" in several of the threads. What is it? a web site, a special discount for 65 grendel members? Where can I get more info?
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - Michael-95037 - 05-17-2019
I just saw that Wilson Combat also has a 20" recon tactical barrel available now (threaded). I know it's personal, but do you think a 20" barrel with a muzzle brake would feel too long? My current AR-15 has a 16" barrel (mid-length gas) + muzzle brake and feels pretty good.
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - Lemonaid - 05-17-2019
Michael-95037 Wrote:Lemonaid, I keep reading about "group buy" in several of the threads. What is it? a web site, a special discount for 65 grendel members? Where can I get more info?
Near the bottom of the forum categories
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?28-Group-Buy-Central
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - GjGary - 05-17-2019
Michael-95037 Wrote:I just saw that Wilson Combat also has a 20" recon tactical barrel available now (threaded). I know it's personal, but do you think a 20" barrel with a muzzle brake would feel too long? My current AR-15 has a 16" barrel + muzzle brake and feels pretty good.
I like a 18" or 20" barrel due to a rifle length gas system, and mine definitely shoot softer than my 16" midlength .
Brakes definitely help recoil but the concussion and extra sound are bothersome. I use thread protectors and forward blast brakes for hunting to persevere what hearing I have left.
I do not feel my guns are to long with brakes but again my bolt guns were 22-24" barrels
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - BCHunter - 05-17-2019
So running numbers quickly assuming 8lb rifle the .270 would be 12 lbs at 10 fps. The grendel is 8lbs at 8fps.
A .223 55gr load would be 3ftlbs at 5fps.
Factoring in a browning a-bolt is a 6.5 lb gun and any ar grendel will feel better with or with out a break.
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - HuntTXhogs - 05-17-2019
Muzzle brake: Better to have and not need , than need and not have
It’ll cost you a couple hundred dollars and time to thread the barrel if you decide later you need it
Why are you hung up on a Wilson Combat barrel and Qcomp?
If you need something now there are many other comparable options...
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - Michael-95037 - 05-17-2019
Thanks guys. I think I'll go for the threaded barrel and try it without the muzzle brake, then add it if needed. Now, I just need to decide on 20" now or 18" later (both are rifle-length gas systems). Decisions, decisions....
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - BIGHORN66 - 05-17-2019
Get a Linear Comp.
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - rabiddawg - 05-17-2019
BCHunter Wrote:So running numbers quickly assuming 8lb rifle the .270 would be 12 lbs at 10 fps. The grendel is 8lbs at 8fps.
A .223 55gr load would be 3ftlbs at 5fps.
Factoring in a browning a-bolt is a 6.5 lb gun and any ar grendel will feel better with or with out a break.
I dont know about this running the numbers but I do agree with the above post from daved20319 about a push vs a punch. The only remaining 223 I have is a hbar colt 16 and its recoil is vastly different than all my Grendels. It really is like a sharp punch vs the Grendel push.
Thats why I kind of question the numbers you post
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - pacificpt - 05-17-2019
Michael,
get the 20" with a rifle length gas system. The rifle length gas tube couples with a 20" heavier barrel to really change the recoil, compared to a 16" carbine length system. This and a muzzle brake should get the recoil down to a manageable level. And do put the softer pad on the butt of the rifle. Also projectiles in the 100 grain compared to the 120 grain class can make a difference in the amount of force coming back your way. I find the 20" barrel very manageable on the AR platform.
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - grayfox - 05-18-2019
Get one with a rifle length gas system, and add the brake. the extra wt (over a 16") plus a good brake will mitigate lots of recoil and rifle gas is smoother/easier than mid or carbine. Not all brakes work to the same level, some are good and some are, well, just extra metal at the end of the barrel. I use MB's on all of my rifles, I hunt with electronic muffs anyway so any blast is a non-issue for me.
Look into the VG6 gamma 6.5 caliber muzzle brake, armorally.com has them for about $50. Best one IMO unless you go to the $125-200 range, lots of recoil mitigation. then get a 5/8-24 jam nut and some blue locktite, you can install and time yourself easy peasy.
If you get a threaded barrel your only cost is the MB, nut and locktite. Having a GS thread it for you (5/8-24) will probly run you 100 bucks.
You can also get a soft rubber pad for the buttstock, there's a magpul kinda "foam-like" that works well on the CTR stocks... about $20 IIRC.
Then just always hunt with electronic ear muffs and you're gtg.
(I always use them b/c lost a lot of hearing when I was in the Navy, plus my time in power plants... hearing is precious but so is controllability of the muzzle).
my $0.02 for ya.
If you can't decide on the Wilsons and want a good option, look at the ballistic advantage fluted ones... hand lapped and about $240 or so on sale, that's what I paid for my latest one. Sub-moa guarantee and I've already got that in shots 20-24 down the tube.
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - grayfox - 05-18-2019
O yeah, if you hunt in Calif then you need lead free, the 20" does a better job getting the MV up on the Barnes 100 gr's, that's a good bullet for ya. should maybe do about 2650-2700 fps out of a 20".
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - BCHunter - 05-18-2019
rabiddawg Wrote:I don’t know about this “running the numbers” but I do agree with the above post from daved20319 about a push vs a punch. The only remaining 223 I have is a hbar colt 16” and it’s recoil is vastly different than all my Grendel’s. It really is like a sharp punch vs the Grendel push.
That’s why I kind of question the numbers you post
RD it is just a hypothetical using a recoil calculator, to illustrated where a grendel would be compared to the OP'S known recoil experience with a .270 and 5.56.
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - Jeepster18_88 - 05-18-2019
I'm not a fan of muzzle brakes. I have 270 that I couldn't shoot more than a couple times. I added a good recoil pad and I could literally shoot it all day long without issues. My friend just had shoulder surgery and wanted me to try out his 7.62x39 that he won. I'm not sure what muzzle brake it has and since I have 2 almost identical to his but with an A2 flash hider on one and a linear compensator on the other, I didn't think it would be a problem to shoot without hearing protection. I hunt with every one of my rifles and I can't stand hearing protection in the woods where I need to hear a slight twig break or distant sounds. One shot and my left ear felt like someone shoved a dull pencil about 3 inches deep. It's still bothering me a week later. As for the recoil after I went home and got my hearing protection. I honestly can't tell any difference whatsoever between shooting his and shooting mine other than noise. I'd get the threaded barrel and add a linear comp or regular A2 flash hider. The recoil is much lighter with the Grendel than every light weight 243 that I own.
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - ptarmigan - 05-18-2019
I'm not sure that I can tell the difference in recoil between my .223 and my Grendel. Of course I hunt with a Tikka .300wm which is on a whole different level. My 9yr old boy can shoot the Grendel all day, if I supply enough ammo. I peel off flash hiders and brakes from my AR before it ever gets shot.
Does a muzzle brake really make a difference? - grayfox - 05-18-2019
The PRS blog and TTAG both have some good testing that show, for 30-50 MB's, how much recoil reduction/barrel rise each one has. It varies from 4% to upwards of 72%. Like I said, different designs yield different results. The APA lil B***rd and the Precision Arms M4-72 were top rated in terms of reductions. At the time of the PRS blog, the APA was, IIRC, one of the most-used MBs for top 50 PRS shooters. Me personally, both of them are a bit too much in 20" and shorter barrels, which is one of the reasons I'm using mostly the VG6 65 gamma. If you try to over-torque a brake onto the barrel (ie, not using the jam nut) you can distort the barrel harmonics but using the jam nut approach I haven't seen any of that effect, accuracy for me improves a lot with the decreased recoil.
They tested 556, 308, 6mm and 6.5 mm brakes. I like tests with objective data in them, it takes out personal biases.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2019/02/02/best-suppressor/
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/08/21/muzzle-brake-summary-of-field-test-results/
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/02/jeremy-s/308-muzzle-brake-test/