6.5 Grendel Forum
Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Printable Version

+- 6.5 Grendel Forum (https://65grendel.com)
+-- Forum: 6.5 GRENDEL DISCUSSION FORUMS (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: 6.5 Grendel Build-It-Yourself & Custom Builds (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress (/showthread.php?tid=17556)

Pages: 1 2 3

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Jinkx - 11-23-2018

I have a great auto-calculating excel spreadsheet with part #'s, weights, price, origin, etc
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D2UUWh_MTeoMhOWlaNnK7uOv8EQ_SZ1a/view?usp=sharing


Reference:
AR15 Parts Weight Database (thanks Bigs28)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I6Qb6kAJjChEJ56qhznv2291c5UHRDyNXuSXGObumqM/htmlview#

Goals:
Less than $2k - money doesn't grow on trees lol
Weight (7lbs with Optic)
Sub MOA handloads
Great trigger
Mobility (can't have a 42" barrel, Missouri forests are dense and sometimes hilly)
Expected engagement ranges < 150 yards
Rare engagement range perhaps up to 300 yards, beyond that your eyes are better than mine at spotting deer
Wild hogs are an actual concern/threat


Build List:
  1. Aero Precision Upper (no forward assist to reduce weight)
  2. Geissele SCH
  3. Aero Precision Lower
  4. Magpul SL-K stock (may switch to the SL but trying to watch the OZ's)
  5. Magpul MOE+ Grip
  6. Brownells Titanium grip screw
  7. ALG LPK
  8. Geissele SSA-E (yes I know Larue MBT but don't like Larue politics. Geissele is a great american, so I will donate to the cause)
  9. BCM Buffer tube & nut
  10. Strike Industries Flat buffer spring
  11. Spikes T1 Buffer
  12. BCMGUNFIGHTER QD endplate
  13. Geissele Maritime bolt Catch (no magpul BAD, too much real estate for gloved hands)
  14. Faxon 18" gunner 6.5 Grendel barrel(came with gas block pinned, nice)
  15. Faxon 6.5 Grendel BCG
  16. Aero Precision Midlength gas tube
  17. Griffin Armament 6.5 Tactical Comp
  18. Midwest industries 12.625" Lightweight rail
  19. Aero Precision Ultralight Extended 1" mount
  20. Leupold VX3i 1.5-5x20mm (170675)
  21. Olight Valkyrie PL-PRO w RPL-7 switch
  22. Small 3 slot MLOK rail for light

  23. Elander 10rd magazine, and probably a few 17 rounders and 24 rounders just because

12/31/18
Lower is complete.
Only need a few more parts before upper starts going together, will post pics soon


12/25/2019
Build complete!
7lbs 1oz

11/09/2020
Build complete, range testing well underway, complete tackdriver (after faulty barrel replacement)
It seems to LOVE 120gr Speer, 123gr SST, and 120gr ELD-M with A2520 and 8208XBR.

Factory Load Info:
#81528 123gr Hornady ELD / 2480fps / 0.6 MOA


Hand Load info:
It likes the following loads (for hunting), all with CCI41 primers
27.4gr 8208XBR / 120gr Speer / 2415fps / OAL 2.260 / Elander mag
29.6gr A2520 / 120gr Speer / 2400fps / OAL 2.260 / Elander mag
29.4gr A2520 / 123gr SST / 2475fps / OAL 2.250 / Elander mag
28.5gr A2520 / 123gr SST / 2410fps / OAL 2.250 / Elander mag

Did not like:
Nosler in any recipe, just terrible groups.

Final cost approx $1600

Public Service Announcement:
It definitely seems 2500fps is the speed limit for this length of barrel.

Build Pics:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1IDVi-jNwU8Cy7A_4FacfGc-Bsmnbgr0i?usp=sharing

Target Pics:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1j4DUPuOlPM48m6Lc-MxiZ3vWz7DS5Ayb?usp=sharing

Any/all feedback is welcome!!!

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - bj139 - 11-23-2018

You can post the link to your Google drive or a folder on your Google drive.
I think there is a share function to limit what you are sharing.

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - SightedIn - 11-24-2018

I’ve got an 18” JP barreled hunter thats pretty close to that. Weighs 7.25 total with a Nikon BDC scope. Without your Streamlight might weigh the same.
If you feel you’ll likely need follow up shots keep the Gamma. If not its just dead weight for a hunting rifle
p.s. went with Geissele too, love it

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Bigs28 - 11-24-2018

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I6Qb6kAJjChEJ56qhznv2291c5UHRDyNXuSXGObumqM/htmlview#

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Lastrites - 11-24-2018

Dang that thing weighs about what my 16" Odin does with mag and a pound ligther than my 20" Faxon match which has quite a bit larger scope on it.

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Kswhitetails - 11-25-2018

LARUE. Buy the Ultimate Upper in the short barrel. Get the Suppressor. Build your lower as listed. Done. Happy. Way better than parts.

I'm not biased, being realistic here. There is no better way to achieve your goals, considering your budget. And you can do it suppressed. Good luck.

-KS

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Jinkx - 11-26-2018

Kswhitetails Wrote:LARUE. Buy the Ultimate Upper in the short barrel. Get the Suppressor. Build your lower as listed. Done. Happy. Way better than parts.

I'm not biased, being realistic here. There is no better way to achieve your goals, considering your budget. And you can do it suppressed. Good luck.

-KS
Interesting idea, however, Upper and suppressor & stamp tax alone would exceed budget / or weight restriction goals (and add a close to 1 year wait, thanks ATF/NFA) or leave no room for optic costs/weight. Best case scenario it would bump the build up to the 8lb category due to 308 aka 5/8" sized suppressors and muzzle devices that would be needed for the grendel.

As stated in my OP I do not agree with Larue's stance on the 2A and consider him.. Well lets just say I dont care for him.

Daniel Defense is another blacklisted company from my perspective. Which is unfortunate as both companies (DD & Larue) have a great reputation in goods.

Back to the topic at hand, are grendel builds considered finicky like 308 builds? Just curious as to the source of the implication that parts vs assemled is inferior.

My homework has not shown that to be the case, of course you all have more experience than me. I beleive the Faxon barrel will have the gas block pinned already (which is the most critical part/issue causing from my understanding). I should get it in the mail in a few days to know for sure. If it does not have a gas block pinned I will send it off to have done as I would not be comfortable doing that part. Of course set screw and clamped gas blocks are common place but just dont like the idea.

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Kswhitetails - 11-26-2018

I guess I can't read, I never saw anything about your distaste for Mark or DD? I'm not sure why you'd be upset with Mark on his 2nd Ammd stance, he's as pro liberty as any person I know. He spends big bucks each year of his own money to keep lawyers in lawsuits defending it.

My statement about the parts being inferrior to getting the upper assembled from LaRue (regardless of the abrasive and abrupt personality) are about your budget, not necessarily meaning it can't be built easily or of quality. I've built several Grendels, and all were easily "tuned"; the weakest link in each was without doubt the mags. I can't touch, can not even get close to the quality of the LaRue parts if I was going to buy everything separately, even on sale. Not even remotely. They run as well as any 5.56 I've shot. My complete LaRue Grendel rifle runs so smooth the 3 gun guys I was next to and let shoot it were jealous because their 5.56 race guns they have MUCH more investment in don't even compare. (these guys have some time behind the trigger at national events, so I was glad they were both impressed)

For your budget, I can't see how you'd fail with the LaRue. I'm not trying to argue with you, allow me to lay it out.

1 - UU kit (assembled free through xmas), in black, in an 18" Grendel - $850 to your door. Comes with - the trigger you want (MBT), barrel, GB/tube, the Billet upper, Billet handguard in the length of your choice - 10.5 or 13", muzzle device, LaRueBCG/LaRue Bolt, standard CH, RAT rifle stock, LR pistol grip, and a LaRue LPK. All you need to do to finish your rifle is buy a separate stripped lower, build it as you've described, and you're complete. Oh, btw, it comes in an ARbuildbox.com box
2 - You use your order number to buy two things:
a) the suppressor. Yes it's heavy, you'll be over your 7 lb limit using it. But you have a suppressor, from a company as reputable as LaRue, that doesn't fail to perform. And it's $650 stamp included. And for the cost of 99 bucks each, you can use it on your other rifles/pistols as well. (hard to beat this utility, especially if you're oggling a suppressor eventually; and consider the consequence of losing the political majority - they're already discussing raising the stamp tax, which I can assure you the Repubes would cave on...
b) a LaRue stripped Billet lower for $150.

Neither of these things come with the UU - they are just addons that allow you the choice later if you so choose. I don't know how much later, as these are rather informal deals offered to purchasers of the UU by Mark himself.

$850+650+150 = $1650. Put your optic atop your rifle and go to work. Plus (here's a big one) Mark puts on a sub MOA guarantee. https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper-kit/

This is the best way with the time I've got to lay it out. I really do think you're overlooking something great if it's a persona issue rather than a best bang for your dollar issue. I've never met Mark, but I've seen his personality in action on video when I got curious once and tried to understand why folks dislike him. He reminds me of Trump. Abrasive, but everything you want when the chips are down.

So, I just weighed my rifle. Complete Grendel, 5 slot Pic rail, 13" KM handguard, Magpul PRS gen 1 FDE/rifle extension/aluminum spacer, Elander 25 round mag (empty), LaRue keymod grip caps (15), BCM QD adapter. 8lbs, 14.3 oz. Put on a lighter carbine stock setup(this one's known to be heavy, and has the extra weight of the LR rifle extension), and take off the grip caps, and you're probably very close to your 7lb goal. I don't think youll be under it with optic, but I'd carry an extra 8 oz for what I gained for it. Personal O of course, but there it is.

Good luck! Light rifles aren't cheap, and good rifles that are light are even less so.

[Image: 44246659890_0da735481d_b.jpg]Untitled by ., on Flickr

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Jinkx - 11-26-2018

Thanks for the reply and clarifications!

My anti-Larue snark was hidden beside the Giessele SSA-E trigger LOL!!!

Ya I noticed there aren't many choices for magazines out there, the Alexander Arms/E-Lander mags seem to be best choice for now, so I will stick with those to try to avoid the issues you spoke about Smile

I hope to have the whole thing built in a few more months, will post pics when it becomes closer. Will also post pics of groups etc as load development begins/proceeds.

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - okiecat - 11-27-2018

Hey Kansas W. You just laid out a ton of great info for a newb like me. Wish I would have found this a month ago. Oh well Jinkx sounds like you will have a great build too. Good luck

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Jinkx - 12-04-2018

Bigs28 Wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I6Qb6kAJjChEJ56qhznv2291c5UHRDyNXuSXGObumqM/htmlview#

0.o wow this is fantastic!!!

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Jinkx - 12-04-2018

Updated OP with googledrive link, AR15 PWDB (thanks bigs28), and updated shopping list details, I changed my mind with the hand guard and will be going with a 12.6" hand guard to further reduce weight for less $$$ and still hide the midlength gas block.... adjusted optic to Leupold VX-3i 1.5-5x20mm for further weight reduction and increased FOV.... as well as better glass from the VX-2, and a few other tweaks. According to my calculations I may even end up under 7lbs with optic and still be at least $250 under budget. Will be exciting to see how this progresses throughout the build process and hand load development.

Just got the 18" Faxon barrel in the other day, man it's SWEET!!! Thanks to Aimsurplus for a crazy black friday deal Smile

I just decided on the LowPro handstop from lowprollc.com - anyone have one of these? Looks really cool

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Lastrites - 12-04-2018

Magpul SL-K stock, 7.9oz which for what it is is still pretty light. Even with the stock and the 3 oz buffer added it's only 7.6 lbs over all which in my book still pretty darn light and should make a great hunting rifle!

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Jinkx - 12-11-2018

Lastrites Wrote:Magpul SL-K stock, 7.9oz which for what it is is still pretty light. Even with the stock and the 3 oz buffer added it's only 7.6 lbs over all which in my book still pretty darn light and should make a great hunting rifle!

Just so there is no confusion the weight as quoted in the excel sheet already accounts for buffer/stock/spring etc of the lower. In fact, its the actual weight complete lower as assembled. I showed zeros for the lower part components to help me keep track of what/where.

As I add items I will weigh the item and update the sheet as the build progresses. Really enjoyable project and I hope to have the build completed ina few more months. Just need BCG, handguard, scope and mount. Meh basically another $G lol

Not including costs for reloading equip *rollseyes*

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Jinkx - 12-11-2018

Recived today the forum group buy 6.5 Grendel upper dust cover. Very nice nitrided finish and sharp image/font.

Very cool!!!!

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - NeilVT79 - 12-11-2018

Jinkx Wrote:Just need BCG, handguard, scope and mount. Meh basically another $G lol

Jinx, have you thought about going with a lowmass BCG? Good way to shave oz's. With an adjustable gas system a good muzzle break and an enhanced buffer spring you can lighten your buffer also.

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Jinkx - 12-11-2018

NeilVT79 Wrote:Jinx, have you thought about going with a lowmass BCG? Good way to shave oz's. With an adjustable gas system a good muzzle break and an enhanced buffer spring you can lighten your buffer also.

I have!!! Faxon has a killer lightweight bcg.

I already have a H1 spikes buffer and flat spring.. Thats about as light as it gets from my homework?

Really the only reasons I have not done the low mass BCG is cost and I have not seen much evidence of use in grendel. They are not cheap either and would put me over 2k if not right at it.

Adjustable gas blocks are heavy and pricey. I dont currently have a suppressor but that may change later in life.. So an ajustable gas block may just eventually finds its way on here lol.

I would be curious if anyone here runs a lightweight BCG. I would be willing to consider perhaps.

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - NeilVT79 - 12-11-2018

I've been thinking about an ultra light grendel for a while.

A few years ago I built an ultra light 5.56 ar that is 76oz. Unloaded with a micro dot. That build cost about 1k.

I used a taccom "buffer" that is only 1.1 oz
https://taccom3g.com/product/carbine-recoil-system/

And this lowmass bolt carrier at 6.9oz that uses an adjustable gas key. Ive used adj gas blocks too and its pretty much the same idea just making the adjustments from different ends.

https://rubbercityarmory.com/product/low-mass-carrier-only-w-adjustable-gas-key/

That rca carrier is pretty inexpensive for what youre getting. And that whole system makes the gun recoil like a 22lr.

Now I havent tried it on the grendel, however, I believe with the gas dialed down enough it would work great. I may turn my 16" grendel into a Guinea pig and see how it works.

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - Jinkx - 12-11-2018

NeilVT79 Wrote:I've been thinking about an ultra light grendel for a while.

A few years ago I built an ultra light 5.56 ar that is 76oz. Unloaded with a micro dot. That build cost about 1k.

I used a taccom "buffer" that is only 1.1 oz
https://taccom3g.com/product/carbine-recoil-system/

And this lowmass bolt carrier at 6.9oz that uses an adjustable gas key. Ive used adj gas blocks too and its pretty much the same idea just making the adjustments from different ends.

https://rubbercityarmory.com/product/low-mass-carrier-only-w-adjustable-gas-key/

That rca carrier is pretty inexpensive for what youre getting. And that whole system makes the gun recoil like a 22lr.

Now I havent tried it on the grendel, however, I believe with the gas dialed down enough it would work great. I may turn my 16" grendel into a Guinea pig and see how it works.
Really cool info. I REALLY DIG that adjustable BCG. I would be very interested to know how it works on your grendel in an experiment. Please let us know if you get a chance to try.

Hunting - Faxon 18" Gunner Lightweight (7lb 1oz) WITH Optic... build in progress - NeilVT79 - 12-11-2018

Jinkx Wrote:Really cool info. I REALLY DIG that adjustable BCG. I would be very interested to know how it works on your grendel in an experiment. Please let us know if you get a chance to try.

Sure thing, I'll swap some parts and do some testing with it next range trip. The idea has been buzzing around in my head anyway.