+- 6.5 Grendel Forum (https://65grendel.com)
+-- Forum: 6.5 GRENDEL DISCUSSION FORUMS (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: 6.5 Grendel Troubleshooting (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=15)
+--- Thread: Cold weather charging (/showthread.php?tid=17521)
Pages:
1
2
Cold weather charging - BCHunter - 11-20-2018
How do you northern climate folk charge in cold weather below 30 farenheit?
I have failure to go into battery on my 12" build, have to slam the forward assist 2 or 3 times before it clicks into battery.
It is 12.7 faxom gb barrel monster bolt with toolcraft nib bcg and scs standard weight buffer switched to 95lb spring helped.
Worked fine in warmer temps and indoors, suggestions on what would cause this only have about 30-50 rounds on all components, switching to my Odin bcg seems easier just have to push the forward assist.
Cold weather charging - bj139 - 11-20-2018
If you take the upper off the lower and put a round into the chamber and push with your finger does it hit a solid stop like the round is seating on the shoulder?
It should. If you need to push with resistance to get the round fully seated the case may be too wide for the chamber.
Another possibility is the bullet may be jammed in the lands.
If you turn the muzzle end up, does the round fall free. It should.
Getting a nice fit of the case to the chamber is what reloading is all about. The case is part of the precision fit machinery.
If this is factory ammo, then I do remember a few posts about the GB Faxon barrels where grit was left in the chamber from the meloniting process.
A search should reveal what others have done.
Cold weather charging - A5BLASTER - 11-21-2018
BCHunter Wrote:How do you northern climate folk charge in cold weather below 30 farenheit?
I have failure to go into battery on my 12" build, have to slam the forward assist 2 or 3 times before it clicks into battery.
It is 12.7 faxom gb barrel monster bolt with toolcraft nib bcg and scs standard weight buffer switched to 95lb spring helped.
Worked fine in warmer temps and indoors, suggestions on what would cause this only have about 30-50 rounds on all components, switching to my Odin bcg seems easier just have to push the forward assist.
How much oil or grease/lub do you have on the internal parts?
Oil, grease/lube thickens when at are below the freezing mark, that could be the cause of your issue.
Try this take everything out the upper and clean off all of the lube on the parts and put it back together then set it outside so it gets cold, if it still does it well you just spent nothing to figure out it isn't the lube level getting thick and causing the issue.
Cold weather charging - BCHunter - 11-21-2018
Ammo is hornady factory black, yes gb faxom, and did the chamber sand/polish due to nitride particles.
parts are lightly lubed with kroil
I'm thinking its tight tolerance on the bolt/ bcg. It seems like the bolt doesn't want to go over the round in chamber. Does the same in my Odin barrel but not as severe. And Odin bolt functions better in 12.7 barrel. Will clean it tonight and try to get some measurments.
Cold weather charging - NeilVT79 - 11-21-2018
BCHunter Wrote:parts are lightly lubed with kroil
Guns get real fussy when it's -20 or colder. I've seen firing pins frozen solid, stuck bolts, and cycling issues from the cold.
I agree with A5BLASTER it's probably gummed up oil. Kroi,l I believe, is a penetrating lube which definitely would get gummy in that kind of weather.
Like A5 said, clean all the parts with a good solvent and make sure they are dry, use compressed air if you can. Get it cycling cold and dry, then try a high purity oil.
Cold weather charging - A5BLASTER - 11-21-2018
BCHunter Wrote:Ammo is hornady factory black, yes gb faxom, and did the chamber sand/polish due to nitride particles.
parts are lightly lubed with kroil
I'm thinking its tight tolerance on the bolt/ bcg. It seems like the bolt doesn't want to go over the round in chamber. Does the same in my Odin barrel but not as severe. And Odin bolt functions better in 12.7 barrel. Will clean it tonight and try to get some measurments.
Kroil will for sure get thick at the freezing point are lower temps.
Clean all that off and out the rifle including th buffer tube and buffer and see how it does.
Cold weather charging - biodsl - 11-21-2018
NeilVT79 Wrote:Get it cycling cold and dry, then try a high purity oil.
What about running it with no lube? If it's a hunting situation and you're only firing 1, 2, or 3 shots, it wouldn't hurt to run it dry, would it?
Cold weather charging - Kswhitetails - 11-21-2018
Slip 2000, or dry silicone for limited runs. Take a medicine cup and put just enough 3n1 in it to cover the bottom, put it in the freezer. Stuff gets surprisingly thick, and I’d imagine this is your issue. I found that the slip2000 is so thin, and handles the cold so well, that I clean my fielded guns with denatured alcohol and use a slip wipe when I’m going to be in the woods in conditions that cold. There are others, this is just what’s working very well for me at the present.
Cold weather charging - Lastrites - 11-21-2018
If you think it's having a hard time getting the extractor over the rim, try removing the extractors O-ring which in a properly operating gun it should not need and almost all new bcg's come with installed.
Cold weather charging - treed - 11-21-2018
I just finished deer hunting in far northern Minnesota with temps ranging down to -0F. Clean your bcg, chamber etc as best as you can. I use G96 as lube which won't freeze but no lube will be fine in a hunting situation. On my rifle I use the bolt release to chamber rather than the charging handle.
Tim
Cold weather charging - Mad Charlie - 11-21-2018
Kroil is not a good lubricant.
Cold weather charging - Mad Charlie - 11-21-2018
Just for grins 'n giggles, I put a few samples of various light oils that I have around here in my freezer after I made that last post.
Marvel Mystery oil- Stayed thinnest, almost no change.
Dexron 6-Stayed thin
Spindle oil for one of my machines-thickened up to about 70wt.
2 stroke oil-really thickened up, like thick molasses.
Turbine oil-very thin at room temp, like honey out of the freezer.
Didn't try any "Gun" oils.
Not definitive, but possibly somewhat indicative.
Cold weather charging - 82HALO - 11-21-2018
When it gets real cold I use Mobil one oil. Doesn't thicken!
Cold weather charging - sneaky one - 12-04-2018
Try Otis dry lube, then a barely a contact with Slip 2000 on a Q Tip to all contact surfaces- bolt and carrier- and all other parts.
It's My cold weather routine. 0°- + 25° F. Learn to take the BCG apart, degrease all surfaces. Check for any burrs, flaws as you disassemble the bcg. Scrape off the carbon on the tail.
Use your calipers! Measure everything that was posted here.
Cold weather charging - BCHunter - 12-04-2018
So I cleaned everything, relubed with liquid wrench dry lube. And although better was still hard to charge first round with the one bolt carrier group. So comparing the two the extractor was quite bigger on the monster bolt vs the Odin bolt. (As in more protruding claw). So I removed the o ring on the extractor spring. This seemed to help even more. Seems to function better in freezing temps now, but gun season is over except holiday doe only season. But I'll have to take it for some late season coyote calling. And really test the cold weather function.
Cold weather charging - SightedIn - 12-04-2018
One of the most underated gun lubes is synthetic 0w-30 engine oil.
Cheap, available anywhere, incredibly slick, and good to -30f
Cold weather charging - bj139 - 12-04-2018
BCHunter Wrote:So I cleaned everything, relubed with liquid wrench dry lube. And although better was still hard to charge first round with the one bolt carrier group. So comparing the two the extractor was quite bigger on the monster bolt vs the Odin bolt. (As in more protruding claw). So I removed the o ring on the extractor spring. This seemed to help even more. Seems to function better in freezing temps now, but gun season is over except holiday doe only season. But I'll have to take it for some late season coyote calling. And really test the cold weather function.
It sounds like the extractor is your only problem. I had to grind the extractor bevel back a bit with a dremel to get proper function on a 7.62x39 bolt.
Cold weather charging - rebby - 12-04-2018
We build a lot of guns for LEOs in northern climates, including Alaska and (of course) northern MN (were in MN). As you can imagine, these guns freeze solid when stored in trunks and go through a repetitive freeze/thaw cycle when stored in the front of a cruiser (not an ideal scenario). Obviously failures of any kind are not an option for these guns.
Believe it or not but we actually degrease these guns prior to shipping and advise our customers to use degreaser in the winter months as well. Get the moving parts as clean and dry as possible (including the tail of the bolt, the rings, the inside of the carrier, and dont forget the buffer tube).
It sounds counterintuitive but it works great when the gun is properly prepped prior to winter. We advise new gas rings right away in the spring so they have some time to break in before running them dry.
Heres a quick overview on what we do to prep the gun. Hellbenders Guide covers parts of this very well so Ill just send you in that direction to start with.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Precision-Rifles/Hellbenders-guides-to-Ultimate-AR15-and-or-AR10/4-42/
Id warn against making any adjustments to the stock buffer or spring though. In the cold, a little extra spring pressure wont hurt. For a similar reason I wouldnt turn the gas down too much either, at a minimum you should tune in the temps youre shooting in (our LEO guns dont use adjustable gas blocks so we tune with spring rates and buffers in these). The most important part in this guide is really the work to the bolt and carrier. Making sure that your chamber is cut correctly is going to be beneficial as well (especially if yours is on the tight side). In addition to HBs guide, we also make sure that both the upper and the buffer tube are free of any burrs or other irregularities that might catch or hang something up.
Once we have the gun prepped we follow that up with a pretty intense break in. Depending on where the gun is going and how it will be used, this will consist of as many as 500 rounds or as few as 100. We use various types of brass factory ammo and use more of a copper equilibrium process than a bench process when it comes to the shoot, clean, shoot, repeat process. Since these arent intended for extreme long range, we suggest going into the winter with the barrel reasonably clean and completely dry. During the break in process we keep the gun really wet, to the point that its almost dripping wet. You can use various oils for this but weve had the best luck with Militec-1. Weve found that the Militec-1 seems to absorb into the metals during this process (especially when the gun gets hot) and it conditions them to behave as if they were lubricated even after degreasing.
Im tapping this out on my phone so hopefully Ive mentioned everything, if not, the bulk of it is here. Weve had a ton of success with this process, even on guns that spend all winter frozen and experience temperatures well into negative extremes for prolonged periods of time. We had one customer in Alaska do a frozen torture test for us and didnt experience any sort of failure under normal circumstances. We pushed the issue in the end and had him bring a frozen gun inside until condensation started to build, then take it back outside and let it freeze. He experienced a FTF right off the bat (short stroke IIRC) and no further issues once he cleared the jam and proceeded. Obviously you shouldnt do this, once the gun is frozen youre better off leaving it that way until youre finished using it. We tell our LEOs to either keep the gun warm (warm house to warm car and vice versa) or frozen (keep it in the trunk). Taking a warm, dry gun out into the cold shouldnt cause an issue as it freezes. The reverse is true if you take a cold gun into the warmth. What you need to be concerned with is cold to warm to cold where freezing of condensation is possible (wet is bad, condensation or oil).
In your case it sounds like you could use a little polishing. Id concentrate on the bolt lugs (see above for the process) and the extractor. FWIW, we do not remove our extractor O-rings when the cold comes. They firm up a little but dont solidify like some cheap O-rings can. With the extractor face polished the O-ring doesnt cause any issues when chambering and it never hurts to help extraction a little in a defensive firearm.
Good luck!
Cold weather charging - BCHunter - 12-06-2018
Thanks for the link Rebby, and your insights, this was being used for hunting, I believe it was a combo of things, wrong lube and amount, not broken in and polished, tight new firearm, cold conditions.
The scenario charging the weapon in the dark at tree stand without alerting everything in the county. Need to unload and load going in and out of the tree stand. Normally I can lower the bcg down slowly and tap in to battery with forward assist. Did not work with the original setup in cold, hopefully it's sorted out now.
Cold weather charging - BCHunter - 12-06-2018
[ATTACH=CONFIG]13298[/ATTACH]
here are my two bolts the left is an odin works and works fine in both firearms, the right is the monster bolt that was giving me difficuties in cold weather. I noticed the extractor on the monster wasn't as beveled and you can see where it was hitting, so that is why I removed the o ring to see if it improved bolt lock up or not.