Best POI repeability with supressor?

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Best POI repeability with supressor? - Sticks - 10-30-2018

I finally got mine in.

I have 4 rifles to switch around on.

Right now I am direct threading onto the barrel. POI shift is around a full inch (in both elevation and L/R) from the last time it was mounted. Playing hell with my ballistics zero having to remember to add or subtract 3+/- clicks after a quick couple of shots to confirm.

Will I get better results if I use the QD mounts, or should I find some way to put indexing marks for each rifle?

OR...am I chasing the impossible?

Best POI repeability with supressor? - imaguy3 - 10-31-2018

I am incredibly impressed with the Dead Air system. I use one can on three different rifles. I shoot my 280ai to 1000+ yards, my grendel to 750 (and touched 1020 once) and my .223 to 500 yards.

The repeatability is so awesome that I literally put it on, shoot, and it's on target.

When I got it I shot a 5 shot group at 100 yards with my 280, removing and installing my suppressor between shots... speaks for itself.

[Image: qcfJJIe.png]

Best POI repeability with supressor? - imaguy3 - 10-31-2018

[Image: UhcCkRr.jpg]

That's the same suppressor on both. No adjustments were made to the zero on either gun before shooting any of those groups.

Best POI repeability with supressor? - imaguy3 - 10-31-2018

Conveniently enough, adding the suppressor results in exactly 2" drop at 100 yards on all my guns. The repeatability of it though is what's important. I just got done testing a direct thread at work, and I could zero it, take it off, put it back on, and have my zero change by over an inch at 100 yards.

The repeatability of the zero with reinstalling after removing is what's key... There will always be some change between having one on and having one off.

Best POI repeability with supressor? - imaguy3 - 10-31-2018

Here it is on my .223

[Image: my35Wto.jpg]

Best POI repeability with supressor? - MarkS - 12-17-2018

FWIW, I have an AAC 762-SDN-6 QD suppressor and I have not noticed any significant shift of POI when re-installing it on any of the rifles that it is used on.

The same suppressor is used on 5 different rifles:
9" 300 BLK AR-15 (AAC Flash Hider)
16" 300 BLK AR-15 (AAC Flash Hider)
16" 300 BLK Handi-Rifle (AAC Flash Hider)
12" 6.5 Grendel AR-15 (AAC Muzzle Brake)
22" 6.5 Creedmoor (AAC Muzzle Brake)

Best POI repeability with supressor? - grayfox - 12-18-2018

Does anyone have any POI experience with the TBAC ultras? Ultra 5 or Ultra 7, I have an Ultra-7 coming in soon and am looking for any feedback on POI shifts, and repeatabilities. Will have the MB on and use their thread-over-MB style.

thanks.

Best POI repeability with supressor? - Bigs28 - 12-18-2018

I have the ultra7. Unfortunately i have never tested with suppressor on and off. Im going to the range tomorrow. If i get the chance i will test it but it's a steel target range.

Best POI repeability with supressor? - Sticks - 12-18-2018

LRRPF52 would know

Best POI repeability with supressor? - grayfox - 12-18-2018

yeah, hoping he chimes in.

Best POI repeability with supressor? - Double Naught Spy - 12-18-2018

MarkS Wrote:FWIW, I have an AAC 762-SDN-6 QD suppressor and I have not noticed any significant shift of POI when re-installing it on any of the rifles that it is used on.

The same suppressor is used on 5 different rifles:
9" 300 BLK AR-15 (AAC Flash Hider)
16" 300 BLK AR-15 (AAC Flash Hider)
16" 300 BLK Handi-Rifle (AAC Flash Hider)
12" 6.5 Grendel AR-15 (AAC Muzzle Brake)
22" 6.5 Creedmoor (AAC Muzzle Brake)

Right. Particularly with direct threading, the POI should remain very stable between installs, but should also with good QD mounts. My guess is that a 1" difference Sticks is seeing (which I assume is at 100 or 200 yards, but he didn't stipulate) is more of a function of changing environmental conditions between the previous time it was on the gun and the current time when he noticed the difference.

grayfox Wrote:Does anyone have any POI experience with the TBAC ultras? Ultra 5 or Ultra 7, I have an Ultra-7 coming in soon and am looking for any feedback on POI shifts, and repeatabilities. Will have the MB on and use their thread-over-MB style.

thanks.

ANYTIME you add a suppressor to the end of a barrel of a rifle, expect there to be a POI change from not having a suppressor on the barrel. Usually, the POI change will be downward, sometimes a bit left as well, less often it seems, a bit right. Strangely, I have seen a couple of cases on YT where the POI goes up, but that seems to be the exception. Maybe you get lucky and it doesn't change, but that seems rare as well.

Barrel harmonics will undoubtedly be affected by adding a suppressor. This may be beneficial, neutral, or problematic. You may find that your sweet spot cherished load for that rifle needs tweeking after you add a suppressor, but that once tweeked, you are golden.

Keep in mind that just like each barrel is unique and the ammo that shoots out of one gun doesn't always perform exactly the same way when shot for an exact duplicate of that gun, each barrel/suppressor combo is unique.

Best POI repeability with supressor? - LRRPF52 - 12-18-2018

Repeatability and POI shift are results from several different variables:

* Concentricity of the rifle bore to the OD
* Concentricity of the muzzle threads to the bore
* Squareness of the shoulder before the threads
* Concentricity of the suppressor bore to the OD
* Concentricity of the suppressor threads to the OD
* Squareness of the mating surfaces of the suppressor
* Same as all of the above with the muzzle brake or FH
* Barrel/suppressor harmonics vs barrel harmonics
* The load

Companies that do an excellent job of manufacturing their suppressors and muzzle devices to very tight tolerances in terms of concentricity are the ones who have established better reputations when it comes to repeatability and POI shift from unsuppressed.

ThunderBeast really emerged out of nowhere to seize that domain and push the industry more towards those types of tolerances, especially for the competitive precision rifle crowd. They approached the baffle arrangement manufacturing process differently in order to ensure suppressor bore uniformity and concentricity in one operation, as opposed to other companies who would come in after and try to true-up the baffle arrangement after attaching them.

Best POI repeability with supressor? - hartj17 - 12-06-2019

I recently installed a silencer and noticed that my POI did shift and it was repeatable, but my issue was that I believe it changed my Node. I was running 28.5 of 8208, and my accuracy changed pretty significantly. Good to know that this can happen and it wasn't something that just came out of the blue

I haven't had a chance to retest since my bolt broke during the testing.

Best POI repeability with supressor? - delt475 - 12-06-2019

I run a Rugged Surge on some of my rifles. I bought their quick qd mounts for all my rifles as well. I notice very little poi change with or without the suppressor on. I have a Liberty Cosmic as well, which requires direct threading. I do notice some poi change with that can though. Nothing major. Everything tends to shoot a little low.

Best POI repeability with supressor? - CMoor - 06-22-2020

I run a ASR mount on several rifles after zeroing the first time there is no change when switching back and forth.

Best POI repeability with supressor? - ricsmall - 06-22-2020

CMoor Wrote:I run a ASR mount on several rifles after zeroing the first time there is no change when switching back and forth.

+1. I run ASR mounts and my rifles dont change when removing/reinstalling. My .260AI will literally shoot one hole groups repetitively with this system. 5 shot groups not 3. I did it one day with 139 scenars, 135Atips, and 140 eldM, all with same powder charge. This is off a bipod with rear bag.

Best POI repeability with supressor? - jmkhenka - 06-23-2020

I have 3 rifles with 2 supressors (swedish made, Stalon) and there is no POI change after unmount and re-mount. There is POI shift with/without but thats expected, any weight change does this for me.

On the howa mini i have 5/8-24 thread, on the Winchester M70 there is a m15x1, and previously on my sauer 101 15x1.

And they are threaded on, no QD or similar used.