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+--- Thread: 20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? (/showthread.php?tid=16948)
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - towerofpower93 - 08-27-2018
Long-time lurker, first time posting.
Been getting the itch for a 6 or 6.5mm AR15 caliber and was recently offered the rifle in the below link as a potential trade. Searches on here and elsewhere seem to paint Ballistic Advantage in a fairly positive light, but not on the level of Criterion or Lilja. I have experience with the product of the former and love the accuracy I'm able to get from my 6.5x47 Lapua Criterion Rem-Age barrel.
That said, does BA have a reputation of being truly sub-MOA? I'd be handloading from the start with a 120-130gr bullet for long range, but would run the Wolf steel case for close range 2 gun/3 gun hoser stages. Would probably put an AAC 51T FH or MB on there for my SDN-6 as well.
With that all in mind, does the BA barrel leave anything off the table? Toolcraft BCG a solid piece of gear, or send off alarm bells? I'd be swapping the trigger for a Geissele, and maybe put an adjustable gas block on before I Rocksett or pin/weld the AAC MB/FH on, but does the rifle below have the potential of being a real shooter?
Thanks for any assistance as the 6.5G is new to me beyond the info I've picked up here and elsewhere by way of curiosity more than anything.
http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/wts-wtt-sub-moa-6-5-ar-burris-xtr-ii.6899425/#post-7201519
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - A5BLASTER - 08-27-2018
First off welcome to the horde.
Ok nothing wrong with toolcraft big and bolt combo as long as you know and understand they cut their bolt and firing pin to a different length then all other grendel bolts are made too.
Keep them as a complete set and you won't have issues.
I have seen a bunch of good reports of BA barrels being fine shooters and I have seen reports of them having issues but that's with all companys.
The first thing I would do if I was buying or trading for it is tear it back down to parts and make double sure everything is installed correctly and lapp the upper' s face and then bed it plus also bed the gas tube into the gas block and bed the gas block.
Since you handload I would think you should beable to find a load it likes.
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - towerofpower93 - 08-27-2018
Thanks for the heads up on the Toolcraft BCG.
Don't imagine I'd be buying another one, save for a bolt failure causing a replacement to be needed.
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - A5BLASTER - 08-27-2018
towerofpower93 Wrote:Thanks for the heads up on the Toolcraft BCG.
Don't imagine I'd be buying another one, save for a bolt failure causing a replacement to be needed.
No problem sir.
Long as you keep that bcg,bolt firing pin combo together and only use toolcraft parts if and when parts need to be replaced it will be fine.
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - grayfox - 08-27-2018
Toolcraft bolt carrier is a standard carrier, it can be interchanged. I personally like the NiB ones myself. However, as A5 says, the bolt body and firing pin need to be used as a combo. They made their bolt equal length to a 556 bolt but cut the face depth (as it should be) to 0.136" depth... meaning their FP needed to be shorted by ~0.011. A standard grendel design bolt has a longer body so it can accept a standard FP yet still have the 0.136" face depth. And another caveat, ensure the barrel is headspaced for the 0.136 bolt face depth. Some what I could call -- less-standard -- Grrr barrels have a head space for 0.125 bolt face depth... the 0.136 style (aka "mk136" in BFT's lingo) is superior, again IMO. If that bbl has been successfully shot with no brass casing issues, then the mate-up is probably ok, but I would definitely ask the seller... caveat emptor still applies!!
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - towerofpower93 - 08-27-2018
Supposedly unfired, so no test cases to verify.
Anything he could do with an empty case or loaded round to verify without firing?
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - A5BLASTER - 08-27-2018
towerofpower93 Wrote:Supposedly unfired, so no test cases to verify.
Anything he could do with an empty case or loaded round to verify without firing?
He could dry to hand cycle some rounds and see if anything doesn't work properly or go fire a few quick shots to test.
But BA barrels use the .136 bolt face depth they have never made barrels with the .125 face depth.
And to my knowledge toolcraft only makes their 6.5 grendel bcg with the .136 bolt face as well.
I know first hand their bolts from their 6.5 grendel bcg will not work in other mil spec bcg's.
I tryed it in a jp lowmass and a PF m16 profile bcg and in both bcg's the bolt was to long to fully seat into the bcg. Couldn't get it in deep enough to insert the cam pin.
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - towerofpower93 - 08-27-2018
Okay, it sounds like it's impossible for there to be an issue with the Toolcraft bolt and carrier mating up with the BA barrel, so long as everything is in spec....
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - Londerko - 08-27-2018
Thats the combo I am running
Toolcraft nitrided 6.5 bcg with a BA barrel, except mine is an 18.
And yes it is 5 shot sub moa
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - Popeye212 - 08-27-2018
I have had a problem with the Nib BCG however none with the nitrided BCG I have just received a replacement barre (20" premium). It is still in break in with only 50 rounds through it. Didn't get a chance to run the the NiB BCG today in it. The barrel extension on the Premium barrel is also Nib. I suspect that the previous problems were with an out of spec Nib BCG. Toolcraft replaced it no questions. Best group today was .972. I cleaned it pretty good before I went to range. I suspect that added material to the BCG and the extension may have been the problem. With proper load development I expect this one to be sub moa. Oh load was 27.7 8028xbr. GM205m primer and Starline brass, OAL 2.230 (need to play with that a bit).
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - bj139 - 08-27-2018
BA has a sub MOA guarantee on their barrels.
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - BCHunter - 08-27-2018
The sub moa guarantee on BA barrels means 3 shots under an inch with match grade ammo. So .9" that should be achieveable but you never know. I don't know BA policy on second buyer warranty so you may want to check into that? The rest of the build looks like quality componets. And it you think it's a fair trade I would say go for it. The grendell isn't hard to reload for so finding a pet load shouldn't take long.
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - Popeye212 - 08-27-2018
That .9 I shot was a 5 shot group and I have no doubt it is capable of better than that. Add the fact that my shooting stunk today. Had the shakes today. Looked back at the groups again if you count the just the first 3 were well under an inch. That last shot always seems roam a bitl
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - Londerko - 08-28-2018
$1100 seems like a pretty good deal considering its a complete gun made with good components and it comes with that MTac scope.
I havent shot mine as much as I would like, I havent even had a chance to shoot it with handloads yet (busy summer and new baby) but my 18 BA barrel and TC BCG combo has shot multiple, repeatable, 5 shot, magazine fed groups under 1 with Hornady American Gunnner and Black. No doubt in my mind itll be 3/4 or under with handloads.
It has also ran 100% reliable with Elander mags.
Hope that helps
-Leo
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - towerofpower93 - 08-28-2018
Popeye212 Wrote:I have had a problem with the Nib BCG however none with the nitrided BCG I have just received a replacement barre (20" premium). It is still in break in with only 50 rounds through it. Didn't get a chance to run the the NiB BCG today in it. The barrel extension on the Premium barrel is also Nib. I suspect that the previous problems were with an out of spec Nib BCG. Toolcraft replaced it no questions. Best group today was .972. I cleaned it pretty good before I went to range. I suspect that added material to the BCG and the extension may have been the problem. With proper load development I expect this one to be sub moa. Oh load was 27.7 8028xbr. GM205m primer and Starline brass, OAL 2.230 (need to play with that a bit).
Thanks for the info.
What bullet was on top of that 8208?
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - Popeye212 - 08-28-2018
I would buy the Larue MBT for $87 and pick up couple of mags while your at it. That barrel and bcg is exactly what I am running now and works perfectly ejects at 3:00 and doesn't bang up the brass.
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - towerofpower93 - 08-28-2018
Londerko Wrote:$1100 seems like a pretty good deal considering it’s a complete gun made with good components and it comes with that MTac scope.
I haven’t shot mine as much as I would like, I haven’t even had a chance to shoot it with handloads yet (busy summer and new baby) but my 18” BA barrel and TC BCG combo has shot multiple, repeatable, 5 shot, magazine fed groups under 1” with Hornady American Gunnner and Black. No doubt in my mind it’ll be 3/4” or under with handloads.
It has also ran 100% reliable with Elander mags.
Hope that helps
-Leo
Thanks for the first hand experience.
Seems like all I’d do with this build is swap out the gas block with an adjustable one, trigger with a Geissele, and the brake with an AAC51T MB as I’d likely run it suppressed the majority of the time for DMR matches and a local long range match that goes out to 1100yds.
I’d be going for the rifle sans scope and using a few no longer used scopes of my own as trade fodder.
I’d put a PST Gen 2 3-15 FFP/MRAD in a Larue or similar cantilever mount and a set of 45deg irons or a 45deg micro RDS for hoser 2G/3G matches.
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - Popeye212 - 08-28-2018
towerofpower93 Wrote:Thanks for the info.Sierra Match King 120gr. Recommended by some guys at the range they seem to be getter better results with the 120 over 123.
What bullet was on top of that 8208?
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - 1Shot - 08-29-2018
The 120 Sierra Pro Hunter really shoots good in both of my Grendel ARs. 20" BCA barrel 3/4" and 18" Oden Works under 1/2" 5 shots if I do my part at 100 yards. My load which is a max in both rifles is Hornady Case, CCI 450 or BR-4, BR-4 shoots a little better in the BCA, 28.5 grs IMR 8208, COAL 2.250 and I use a medium Lee Factory Crimp (fingers in die half way close.) Now if we an get Sierra to make some and get them on the market. Everybody has been out of stock for almost a year. 120 Speer Gold Dot also is an accurate bullet with 28.0 grs IMR 8208 for me. You need to find the COAL that works best in your rifle because 10 thousands one way or the other makes a lot of difference with this bullet.
20" BA barrels a sub-MOA contender? - Popeye212 - 08-29-2018
Just posted this mornings results first shot on last group was a WTH happened. Last four went .292in. .279 MOA pic posted in another thread. Should answer the BA sub MOA question. SMK 120gr. 28.0 gr 8208xbr Fed GM205M primer. 2.250 OAL shoulder bump .02 Starline brass. Ran out SMK 120's as soon as I get more I will go up with it to around 28.5 and see how she likes it. Looking for the Pro Hunter and trying ELD M next.