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Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - Printable Version

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Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - LT Dann - 08-16-2018

What does everyone do to keep the barrel cool when at the range? How hot do people normally let the barrel get before taking a brake/cooling the barrel? I’m really getting into 6x5 shooting. Last trip to the range I had it smoking hot. Thanks for the help

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - A5BLASTER - 08-16-2018

Well first thing is don't use a thin profile barrel and the for me I like to give bout 2 minutes between each shot and bout 10 minutes break between each 5 round mag.

I also take a small desk top fan to the range and keep it blowing on the rifle at all times.

I speak from first hand knowledge on the thin profile have two 18 inch light weight jp barrels and if I rip throw a 5 round make quickly is hot and will effect groups on the next mag.

Hope this helps sir.

Forgot to add use a short handguard with lots of openings so the barrel can breath easyer.

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - mdram - 08-16-2018

you could always do what maxim did........................

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - Klem - 08-16-2018

  • Keep the BCG locked back between strings so air can circulate through the barrel.
  • Wait longer between shots.
  • Do your accurate shooting for groups early in the session and then do drills or plinking.
  • Bring a fan to the range and point it at the barrel. It will also blow the boiling air (mirage) away from above the barrel seen through the scope at high magnifications.
  • Use a barrel mirage shield like a strip of cardboard or a strip of venetian blind.
    http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2018/02/mirage-shields-make-your-own-or-buy-carbon-fiber/
  • Buy or build a barrel-cooling fan like this one;
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/06/new-product-chamber-flag-fan-device-cools-down-hot-barrels/

I just wait longer and keep the BCG locked back. Also, if the air is too still I dial down the magnification.

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - rabiddawg - 08-16-2018

I usually take 5-6 guns with me. Shoot one then move to the next.....

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - kcb38 - 08-18-2018

Klem Wrote:Bring a fan to the range and point it at the barrel. It will also blow the boiling air (mirage) away from above the barrel seen through the scope at high magnifications.
That's smart. A battery operated fan would keep the air moving and reduce fogging too (a big problem for me lately) plus it could help to keep gnats out of your face (another big problem lately). I don't see it doing a lot to cool the barrel but still, the only drawback I can see with it is that it's one more thing to carry. I'm off to Amazon to see what they have in the way of battery operated fans. I think I've seen some with rechargeable batteries too. Cool

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - rabiddawg - 08-18-2018

Or you could buy a big yeti and keep your guns in it.

They make their own ice I’m told Wink

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - Randy99CL - 08-18-2018

kcb38 Wrote:I'm off to Amazon to see what they have in the way of battery operated fans. I think I've seen some with rechargeable batteries too. Cool

Johnny's Reloading Bench has used a couple of chamber fans too. Says they work well.

I like the idea and want to make my own. I'm thinking a fan blowing into a funnel with a plastic hose stuck on it. The fan and battery pack will sit on the bench with the hose stuck in the chamber.

Don't need a giant fan, you can only move so much air through the small bore. And use standard battery sizes that you can get at WM or HF and pop into a normal charger.

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - rabiddawg - 08-18-2018

Randy, i would suggest looking for one of the small fans used to keep electronics cool. Look on the back of a computer or tv receiver. They are very small and shouldn’t require much battery power.

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - kcb38 - 08-18-2018

At first I thought it was a great idea but I'm not sold on the barrel cooling fans. I looked into it recently and it didn't seem to me that they increased the rate of cooling by any significant margin. I'll have to look up the test I found and post the link.

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - kcb38 - 08-18-2018

Here's one test. I think I saw another with similar results. If you're dead set on making one you can use a battery operated air mattress inflator. Coleman makes one, Walmart sells them...
https://rifleshooter.com/2017/08/do-rifle-barrel-coolers-work/

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - Randy99CL - 08-18-2018

Thanks for the responses!

For that particular test the guy measured the temp of the barrel at the handguard but I'm more concerned with lowering the temp at the throat of the bore. I wonder if a fan might extend barrel life by decreasing erosion.

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - Randy99CL - 08-18-2018

A test I'd like to see is sticking a temperature probe into the chamber throat after a string of shots.
Then see how much of a difference a fan can make over time.

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - Gusmeister - 08-19-2018

It is not much of a problem in cold weather (PA) but summer is tough. I keep promising myself to get a chamber chiller but never seem to get around it. So far my solution is to bring 2 or 3 rifles.

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - kcb38 - 08-19-2018

Randy99CL Wrote:Thanks for the responses!

For that particular test the guy measured the temp of the barrel at the handguard but I'm more concerned with lowering the temp at the throat of the bore.
If you did this test at the chamber you'd probably see a bigger temp drop because the heat transfer from the hottest region of the barrel will be faster than cooler areas. The question is though, steel being an excellent conductor, what is the temp difference from the chamber to the spot on the barrel he measured? That would tell you the difference in the rate of heat transfer.

Edit: wow my thermodynamics prof is probably turning over in his grave. Edited to say delta T would be highest where the barrel's hottest.

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - LR1955 - 08-19-2018

Randy99CL Wrote:A test I'd like to see is sticking a temperature probe into the chamber throat after a string of shots.
Then see how much of a difference a fan can make over time.

Randy:

No, a fan won't increase barrel life. Shoot more slow fire and maybe but I don't think anyone can swear by it. Use the barrel as you want to use it and buy a new one after about six or eight thousand rounds.

I once did a test using a ten dollar indoor outdoor thermometer with a probe on a 30-06 Match Rifle I had. I wanted to see how fast the chamber heated up to see if that heat transferred into a loaded cartridge and thus heated up the powder enough to make a difference. Can't remember precisely the procedure I took but it was a couple of five shot sustained fire strings with a temp reading between them. About the only thing that surprised me was that the temp went up in a non linear fashon and once it go so hot, it didn't get proportionately hotter with more rounds fired. Also, you would have to let the live round sit there for a long time before it got hot enough to make a difference in velocity. So long that the chamber would cool down.

I have seen cook offs with the M-16A1, CAR-15, and the initial issued M-4's that had an automatic capability. A bunch of 30 round mags shot on auto will heat up one of those things more than sufficiently for a cook off. Have even seen one of those M-4's get so hot the round went through the side of the barrel. That was a defect in design that eventually got fixed. A cook off is unnerving. So I am pretty hot on muzzle awareness.

Seriously though, get one of those ten dollar pocket size indoor / outdoor thermometers with a probe and wire. A real eye opener for me. Many myths went by the wayside after that test.

LR55

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - Randy99CL - 08-20-2018

Thanks for the info guys!

I read an article recently that talked of how hot the expanding gasses are; way hot enough to melt barrel steel. We're lucky that the bore is only exposed to those temps for milliseconds at a time.

LR, that temp probe is a good idea that I will try myself.

I'm working to buy a bolt gun in 6.5CM and am wondering how heavy a barrel I should get. I won't be blasting with it; just slow targets and steel. Actually, I have picked out the gun I really want and the barrel is pretty heavy. (Tikka T3x Varmint)

I recently bought a T/C Compass (sporter weight) in 204 Ruger and haven't fired it yet. Wondering how much of a problem heat might be with that barrel. I can imagine parking outside a PD town and firing a lot of rounds in a short period of time.

I don't know what I'm worrying about, I've never owned a rifle long enough, or shot one enough, to wear out a barrel.

And LR, have you seen the IV8888 videos on melting down weapons? There are a few of them and they're interesting and fun to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cr9e3N6HEw

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - LR1955 - 08-20-2018

Randy99CL Wrote:Thanks for the info guys!

I read an article recently that talked of how hot the expanding gasses are; way hot enough to melt barrel steel. We're lucky that the bore is only exposed to those temps for milliseconds at a time.

LR, that temp probe is a good idea that I will try myself.

I'm working to buy a bolt gun in 6.5CM and am wondering how heavy a barrel I should get. I won't be blasting with it; just slow targets and steel. Actually, I have picked out the gun I really want and the barrel is pretty heavy. (Tikka T3x Varmint)

I recently bought a T/C Compass (sporter weight) in 204 Ruger and haven't fired it yet. Wondering how much of a problem heat might be with that barrel. I can imagine parking outside a PD town and firing a lot of rounds in a short period of time.

I don't know what I'm worrying about, I've never owned a rifle long enough, or shot one enough, to wear out a barrel.

And LR, have you seen the IV8888 videos on melting down weapons? There are a few of them and they're interesting and fun to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cr9e3N6HEw

Randy:

You will never go wrong if you ask the barrel maker to use a Palma taper. If he knows what he is doing, it will be thick enough to take heat but thin enough not to weigh a ton. All the match rifle barrels I have bought over the last twenty years have had Palma tapers. I have some with fluting but did that to take more weight off the barrel. Providing the barrel was heat treated and fluted properly, it won't have any effect on performance even when it heats up pretty hot. I also don't think the difference in cooling between a fluted and not fluted barrel is enough to make a difference.

Even shooting a slow fire string, my barrel gets very hot. So hot sometimes I can't hold the rifle by the barrel. No change in zero or anything else. Just use a mirage screen.

I have seen various videos of guys deliberately destroying semi and fully auto firearms from shooting them until something melted or failed. Not sure why they would do such a thing because it is super dangerous due to out of battery firings and or blowing the receiver apart.

Barrels are expendable items. Shoot six or eight thousand rounds from a Grendel barrel and it is probably done so just buy a new one. Your 6.5 CM barrel will probably be done at 5K rounds of easy slow fire. 6mm barrels? Have at least one on hand because those go very fast. 2 - 3K and they are pretty much toast from my experience.

Ten dollars or so for a indoor / outdoor thermometer with probe was well worth the money. In a pinch, you can even use it to get the air temperature!

LR55

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - LT Dann - 08-20-2018

Randy99CL Wrote:Johnny's Reloading Bench has used a couple of chamber fans too. Says they work well.

I like the idea and want to make my own. I'm thinking a fan blowing into a funnel with a plastic hose stuck on it. The fan and battery pack will sit on the bench with the hose stuck in the chamber.

Don't need a giant fan, you can only move so much air through the small bore. And use standard battery sizes that you can get at WM or HF and pop into a normal charger.

I forgot about JBR’s chamber chillers. Rewatched his video on em and just ordered one from amazon. ($35) I don’t know why, but I thought they were way more expensive then that. I heard about mattres fans, but I think I’ll get more then that into making one and it will be bulky. Thanks guys. I’m interested to see how well it really works

Keeping the Grendel cool at the range - Gusmeister - 08-20-2018

I am a little confused (nothing new) here. There is no question that some barrels will shift their POA when they are hot. Pencil barrels do it more than bull barrels. Got that. But am I reading that a hot barrel erodes the barrel throat at the same rate as a cool or cooler barrel? LR55... is that what you are saying? Or is it a matter of degree that is a lot less than normally assumed? Or are you saying a chamber/barrel fan is not effective?

Thank you. Looking forward to responses.