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+--- Thread: Firing pin measurment (/showthread.php?tid=16867)
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Firing pin measurment - Mopardoctor - 08-14-2018
What is the correct firing pin measurement at the face of the bolt? I have the correct Grendel bolt and firing pin length from other forum threads but the primer strikes still look deep.
Mopar Doctor
Firing pin measurment - A5BLASTER - 08-14-2018
Who is the bolt made by?
Firing pin measurment - Mopardoctor - 08-14-2018
It came with my Brownells/Satern 24 " barrel. Bolt measures 2.808.
Firing pin measurment - Mopardoctor - 08-14-2018
Firing pin OAL is 3.273
Firing pin measurment - A5BLASTER - 08-14-2018
Don't quote me on this but it think the bolt should measure 2.810, I could be wrong.
Google AA grendel bolt on this forum you should find a post by LRRPF52 stating the correct bolt measurement laid out by AA so the mil spec fireing pin could be used.
Hope this helps sir.
Firing pin measurment - A5BLASTER - 08-14-2018
I will measure mine right quick to give you a data point its a jp bolt and PF fireing pin, stand by.
Firing pin measurment - A5BLASTER - 08-14-2018
Ok got messurments for you.
Two jp bolts
2.810 and 2.811
Two fireing pins one PF one JP
PF 3.280
JP 3.279
Hope this helps sir.
Firing pin measurment - A5BLASTER - 08-14-2018
Just noticed you said it's a 24 inch brownells/Saturn grendel II.
What ammo?
I had one when I first got into the grendel got it here as a complete rifle but guy I got it from had it cut back to 21 inch.
It would show deep fireing pin marks on fired brass and I had several blown primers useing hornady sst ammo.
Had to use a adjustable gas block and tune it down because it was so over gassed due to extra large gas port hole in the barrel, once I tuned it the issue went away.
Not saying that's what's happening here but just more food for thought for you sir.
Firing pin measurment - mdewitt71 - 08-14-2018
Toolcraft 5.56 NiB bolt 2.800"
Toolcraft 5.56 firing pin 3.2810"
AAC 5.56 NiB bolt 2.800"
AAC 5.56 NiB bolt 3.28010
Deadbolt TiN 5.56 bolt 2.8005"
Deadbolt firing 5.56 pin 3.2800"
Radical Arms 5.56 bolt 2.8005"
Radical Arms 5.56 firing pin 3.2810"
Toolcraft 6.5 Grendel NiB bolt 2.8035"
Toolcraft 6.5 Grendel NiB pin 3.2825"
Toolcraft 6.5 Grendel Nitride bolt 2.800"
Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel bolt 2.813"
Firing pin measurment - VASCAR2 - 08-15-2018
I hate to bring this up again as it has come up before but when Alexander Arms intoduced the 6.5 Grendel bolt AA used a .136 bolt face depth. AA added .01 length to a standard AR-15 bolt which is 2.800 length so a AA 6.5 Grendel bolt should measure 2.810 from the outer most face to the rear of the bolt. AA used the 2.810 bolt length so a standard AR-15 firing pin can be used with an AA 6.5 Grendel .136 bolt.
There have been reports of pierced primers from excessive firing pin protrusion with 6.5 Grendel .136 bolts that are 2.800 length like Toolcraft. A milspec firing pin is 3.280 + or - .001 and will work as designed with a 2.810 AA 6.5 Grendel bolt. Using a milspec length firing pin in a 2.800 length Toolcraft .136 6.5 Grendel bolt may produce pierced primers. You can get an extra .01 firing pin protrusion from the shorter 2.80 bolt. Throw in the variation in manufacturing tolerance and you might experience pierced primers. Some manufacturers were supplying non milspec (shorter) firing pins with the 2.800 6.5 Grendel bolts.
Just something to be aware of if your .136 bolt face depth 6.5 Grendel bolt measures 2.800 overall length, probably should have shorter firing pin. A person can shorten a milspec firing pin by .01 to account for a shorter bolt length.
Brownell’s sell a firing protrusion gauge. Minimum firing pin protrusion on an AR-15 is .028 maximum length .036.
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/measuring-tools/firing-pin-protrusion-gauges/firing-pin-protrusion-gauge-prod26477.aspx
Firing pin measurment - A5BLASTER - 08-15-2018
VASCAR2 Wrote:I hate to bring this up again as it has come up before but when Alexander Arms intoduced the 6.5 Grendel bolt AA used a .136 bolt face depth. AA added .01 length to a standard AR-15 bolt which is 2.800 length so a AA 6.5 Grendel bolt should measure 2.810 from the outer most face to the rear of the bolt. AA used the 2.810 bolt length so a standard AR-15 firing pin can be used with an AA 6.5 Grendel .136 bolt.
There have been reports of pierced primers from excessive firing pin protrusion with 6.5 Grendel .136 bolts that are 2.800 length like Toolcraft. A milspec firing pin is 3.280 and will work as designed with a 2.810 AA 6.5 Grendel bolt. Using a milspec length firing pin in a 2.800 length Toolcraft .136 6.5 Grendel bolt may produce pierced primers. You can get an extra .01 firing pin protrusion from the shorter 2.80 bolt. Throw in the variation in manufacturing tolerance and you might experience pierced primers. Some manufacturers were supplying non milspec (shorter) firing pins with the 2.800 6.5 Grendel bolts.
Just something to be aware of if your .136 bolt face depth 6.5 Grendel bolt measures 2.800 overall length, probably should have shorter firing pin. A person can shorten a milspec firing pin by .01 to account for a shorter bolt length.
Brownell’s sell a firing protrusion gauge. Minimum firing pin protrusion on an AR-15 is .028 maximum length .036.
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/measuring-tools/firing-pin-protrusion-gauges/firing-pin-protrusion-gauge-prod26477.aspx
Thanks for posting all that again sir.
So looking at the specs stated that puts my gear dead in the sweet spot of proper length, good enough for me.
Firing pin measurment - Mopardoctor - 08-15-2018
Thanks VASCAR2 for the pin protrusion measurement and the tip on the measuring gauge. It will be ordered. The primer impacts looked deeper than what I've seen in the past on other rifles. This is a brand new build up Grendel that spawned from my 18" Grendel. I call it the "Beast" because it is so much heavier and longer. I now have 25 shots thru it now with getting it sighted in and the gas block adjusted. First 3 shots went into a group that a quarter will cover. This was at 50 yards using Hornady AG ammo. I pierced a primer on one of my reloads so that got my attention.
Mopar Doctor
Firing pin measurment - VASCAR2 - 08-15-2018
If your using standard rifle primers like CCI 400, Winchester or Remington standard primers you can get pierced primers in an AR-15 because the primer cups are thinner. It is recommended to use CCI 41 or Federal AR primers which have thicker cups and designed for the AR-15 floating firing pin. The CCI 450 and other magnum small rifle primers have thicker cups as well as a couple of bench rest primers.
There have been threads where a bolt length or firing pin were out of spec and have contributed to pierced primers or inconsistent ignition. I wish the other bolt manufacturers had used the 2.810 length bolt for 6.5 Grendel but they didn’t. When you move away from the 5.56/223 in the AR-15 into other calibers/cartridges there are inconsistencies in components.
Firing pin measurment - Mopardoctor - 08-15-2018
I always use CCI 41 in my Grendel loads. I've seen what a Federal 210M primer can do to a M1 Garand so I know you need a tough primer. The reloaded case with the pierced primer may have been a high primer. My bolt seems to be .002 short of the 2.810 measurement and I am going to get another firing pin.
Mopar Doctor
Firing pin measurment - VASCAR2 - 08-16-2018
Many forum members are aware of the issue with the 2.800 bolts and firing pins but you never know if a new member is aware of this situation. Same thing with using standard small rifle primers in the AR-15 with floating firing pin. Kind of why I hated to bring up the bolt length since you’ve been on the forum several years. Wasn’t trying to hijack your thread.
I hope you get your rifle sorted out.
Firing pin measurment - Mopardoctor - 08-16-2018
I decided to order a bolt and firing pin from Alexander Arms. I figure AA should have better control over the bolt tolerances than any aftermarket manufacturer. It will also make my Grendel happier knowing that its bolt is from it's creator.
Mopar Doctor
Firing pin measurment - NugginFutz - 08-17-2018
I'd checked all four of my bolts, which came from various sources. In no particular order.
[TABLE="class: outer_border, width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD]Manufacturer[/TD]
[TD]Bolt Length[/TD]
[TD]Depth[/TD]
[TD]Bolt Lug[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tactical Ammunition [SUP]1[/SUP][/TD]
[TD]2.809"[/TD]
[TD]0.136"[/TD]
[TD]0.284"[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Les Baer Custom[/TD]
[TD]2.810"[/TD]
[TD]0.135"[/TD]
[TD]0.280"[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Larue Tactical[/TD]
[TD]2.810"[/TD]
[TD]0.135"[/TD]
[TD]0.281"[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Millennium Manufacturing[SUP] 2[/SUP][/TD]
[TD]2.810"[/TD]
[TD]0.136"[/TD]
[TD]0.286"[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Seriously - their website is now officially beyond help.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]Monster Group Buy
In all cases, firing pins are completely interchangeable (right?) and bolts head space identically between all rifles (again, right?)
When at the range or in the field, a second rifle is always the perfect backup. Plus, there is tremendous peace of mind when cleaning BCG's with no need to concern myself about accidental mixups.
Firing pin measurment - Mopardoctor - 09-01-2018
Got my AA bolt and AA firing pin and pin protrusion is now .028". I also found that Hornady primer pockets are shallow .001 - .002" . Cleaned up the primer pockets with a KM primer pocket correction tool.
Mopar Doctor
Firing pin measurment - TraderRik - 09-03-2018
Anyone know where to buy a correct firing pin for a Toolcraft nitride Grendel BCG? I would like to have a spare. I have searched online and looked at all my usual sources and find nothing that specifically states a particular pin will work. In fact, most sites I've gone to don't even sell Toolcraft pins separately.
Thanks!
Firing pin measurment - VASCAR2 - 09-03-2018
I have looked for a source for Odin Works, Brownell’s or Toolcraft 6.5 Grendel firing pins with no luck. To my knowledge they were the only companies using a 2.80 length bolt. I read where one forum member posted the length of a LaRue 6.5 Grendel bolt at 2.80 but then a few months later another forum member posted the length of his Larue 6.5 Grendel bolt a 2.810. With manufacturing tolerance and vendors changing sources I don’t know which bolt LaRue is currently shipping.
If I needed a shorter firing pin I would order a Stainless Steel AR-15 firing pin. I would check the firing pin protrusion and if it was excessive I’d shorten the firing pin to be within spec. I wouldn’t want to shorten a chrome plated firing pin as you might remove all the chrome from the tip. Same with a Nitride firing pin, shortening probably would get into the softer steel underneath the Nitride surface.
Firing pin protrusion spec is minimum .028 to maximum .036.
Here is a link to a SS firing pin which are available from several vendors.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1003307442/colt-firing-pin-ar-15-stainless-steel