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+--- Thread: USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence (/showthread.php?tid=15940)
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - PeterD - 04-12-2018
... instead of lawful legal gun owners?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/04/09/mass-killings-failures-hold-law-enforcement-accountable-column/497285002/
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - montana - 04-12-2018
Law enforcement accountability is decided by elected officials who should be under the accountability of the voters. Guilty or not, law enforcement will always be at the mercy of public opinion, whether it is right or wrong. Educating low information voters is the real challenge.
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - stanc - 06-03-2018
Here's one FBI agent who should be punished for incompetent gun handling.
Not only drops his gun while dancing, he pulls the trigger while picking it up.
[video=youtube;DbGvMm8U3Rc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbGvMm8U3Rc[/video]
As a result of his stupidity, the business is planning to install a metal detector at the entrance.
One more gun free zone...
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - calvarez - 06-03-2018
Police incompetence and cowardice being called out? About time. That school shooting would not have been prevented by creating more anti-gun laws, but people sure would have been helped if we hired competent police. Instead we weed out those who are too smart and aren't pre-disposed to being thugs.
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - Crusty - 06-03-2018
A guy who used to live a couple of houses down from me was head of a crime task force and after seeing him do moronic stuff like multiple car wrecks, house set fire by grilling in the garage to stay out of the rain, pulling into his garage door one night driving home drunk, sunk fishing boat, etc. it's hard for me to imagine operations he's involved with being anything other than a keystone cops rerun.
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - VASCAR2 - 06-03-2018
Unfortunately it is hard to get rid of bad apples in many agencies. In times when the economy is good it is hard to attract the most qualified applicants. The LE community has it 5-15 % of undesireables just like other professions. The challenge is to offer enough pay and incentives to attract qualified people and to get them to stay. The shift work 24/7 365 plus bureaucracies let alone the screwed up court system and it doesn’t take long to recognize why LE is a challenge.
Most public institutions are a reflection of society which has changed a lot since when most baby boomers were born.
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - just_john - 06-03-2018
Incompetence and stupuidity is difficult to regulate or eliminate and would require oversight to accomplish. Obviously, some governmental agency would have to be created to establish the rule set. History has proven that they self regulate very badly and this would prove no different.
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - montana - 06-03-2018
Like civilian gun owners, law enforcement has their share of boobs. Law enforcement personnel are actually civilians if we need to get technical about it. Law enforcement should be held to the same accountability as anyone who decides to carry and use a firearm, not politics. This is why I cringe every time some anti-gun kook disagrees with concealed carry except for law enforcement. It is the quality of training, maturity and the individuals ability that should be the standard test, not a badge. Competition has proven this to me many times. Here is an oldie, but a goody. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uADb3NyYlSA
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - stanc - 06-03-2018
montana Wrote:Like civilian gun owners, law enforcement has their share of boobs. ... Here is an oldie, but a goody. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uADb3NyYlSALOL. "See how accidents can happen."
Whatever else can be said about him, I give him high marks for:
1. Adapting to the situation and turning it into a teaching moment.
2. Being determined to continue with his class, despite being shot.
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - Double Naught Spy - 06-04-2018
I think LEOs should be prosecuted just like the regular public for things such as negligent discharges and such, but I am not sure about the notion of punishing or incompetence or cowardice.
Incompetence in a LEO often often stems from training, or lack there of of proper training. I don't see how you can make that criminal. Cowardice is personal and individualistic. Studies have shown that it is not wholly predictable as to who will or will not perform appropriately in a crisis. However, I would have no problem with firing people who have proven their inability to perform their jobs - not due to lack of proper training (should not be in the job without it in the first place).
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - StoneHendge - 06-04-2018
I am in absolute shock that an OpEd like that appeared in USAToday. It even used the term "mass killing" as opposed to "mass shooting." Did someone hack their website?
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - PAsasquatch - 06-04-2018
I think cowardice should be punished. If your job is to protect and serve and you don't do everything in your power to complete this requirement; you are not deserving of the position.
Just my 2cents though.
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - LR1955 - 06-04-2018
PAsasquatch Wrote:I think cowardice should be punished. If your job is to protect and serve and you don't do everything in your power to complete this requirement; you are not deserving of the position.
Just my 2cents though.
PAS:
One change. Instead of 'do everything in your power', change to 'do everything you are allowed and authorized' to do.
Good luck proving cowardice. Almost impossible to prove no matter the situation.
I think it would be easier to get a charge of incompetence or negligence to stick than a charge of cowardice.
LR
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - calvarez - 06-04-2018
Here's the problem. We paid these guys for decades, expecting them to be willing to take some risk to save lives. They were put there with that expectation, which meant that other people, who might actually do the job, were not put there. Children died because of these cowards. What do you do when you go years/decades expecting one thing and don't get it, and that incompetence results in deaths? Is it any different from gross negligence causing a death. Say you don't put a cover or sign on an open manhole, and a kid falls in. Gross negligence, no? You pay insurance premiums for a decade and then when you have a claim they say they never really had the money to pay claims. How is that different from refusing to act when needed?
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - montana - 06-04-2018
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/04/disgraced-parkland-school-cop-scot-peterson-defends-his-actions-how-can-keep-saying-did-nothing.html
The father of one of the victims gives his opinion on this subject.
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - Double Naught Spy - 06-04-2018
calvarez Wrote:Here's the problem. We paid these guys for decades, expecting them to be willing to take some risk to save lives. They were put there with that expectation, which meant that other people, who might actually do the job, were not put there. Children died because of these cowards. What do you do when you go years/decades expecting one thing and don't get it, and that incompetence results in deaths? Is it any different from gross negligence causing a death. Say you don't put a cover or sign on an open manhole, and a kid falls in. Gross negligence, no? You pay insurance premiums for a decade and then when you have a claim they say they never really had the money to pay claims. How is that different from refusing to act when needed?
I agree. Then again, the courts have ruled that the cops do not have to protect individuals per se. I think the court rulings are wrong, but there you have it.
As for expectations, the public has a lot of expectations, many of which are unfounded. I hate to say this when it comes to cops, but they do have some free will. They are employees, not super heroes.
I will say this, if we start coming up with laws that convict cops for broad categories such as incompetence and cowardice, you are going to have a harder time find people to take those jobs for the pissant compensation packages that they get. Now, if everyone will just pony up just 25% more in their taxes, maybe we can get police departments that will be able to hire a higher quality person, provide the examinations to help assure that they will perform on the job as demanded, and provide them with the total package of training and gear needed for them to handle situations. Sadly, few folks want to pay more for the protection they desire, but then act all surprised when they didn't get the protection they wanted.
You want cop response times to be more actionable, say 60 seconds instead of 7-15 minutes (national rates in major cities for highest level calls), then a lot of changes will need to be made and those changes are going to cost a HUGE amount of money that nobody wants to pay. Heck it took 4 minutes at Parkland for the SRO to show up and 2 minutes at Santa Fe for the SROs to show and engage and in both cases, the cops were on campus.
For example, Dallas would love to be able to make it in 8 minutes for Priority 1 calls, but they aren't. They are over 9 minutes.
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/02/12/dallas-pd-reassigns-officers/
Are we going to start fining cops that fail to show up in X amount of time as well?
Don't get me wrong. I am not defending those that don't do their jobs. However, there better be a very explicit plan for punishment if you want to do so for things like "incompetence" and "cowardice" and fully expect any officer charged for incompetence to similarly file a suit against the city for insufficient training, screening, and placement (putting an officer into a job that officer could not fully perform).
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - LRRPF52 - 06-05-2018
stanc Wrote:Here's one FBI agent who should be punished for incompetent gun handling.
Not only drops his gun while dancing, he pulls the trigger while picking it up.
[video=youtube;DbGvMm8U3Rc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbGvMm8U3Rc[/video]
As a result of his stupidity, the business is planning to install a metal detector at the entrance.
One more gun free zone...
![[Image: 50sH.gif]](https://i.gifer.com/50sH.gif)
USA Today asks if we should punish law enforcement incompetence - Klem - 06-05-2018
We are all responsible for the consequences of our decisions/actions. Who are we responsible to? Those who pay our wages and those who are affected by our decisions actions.
The definition of 'incompetent' varies depending on who you talk to but no doubt the organisation this attention-whore pledged allegiance to thinks he is. He is also responsible to any member of the public that was or could have been hit by that bullet (i.e. civil litigation). Just because he is a member of an organisation does not make him exempt from individual responsibility. Just ask the Nazi's at the Nuremburg trials whether the excuse of, they were just 'following orders' worked...