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+--- Thread: Muzzle Devices (/showthread.php?tid=14770)
Muzzle Devices - olde sarge - 12-09-2017
Has anyone tried any of the muzzle devises that direct blast away from shooter (Krink, etc)? If so what is your experience with them. Have permanent tinnitus and hearing loss. Would like to keep what I still have. Would also like to protect others from side blast.
Muzzle Devices - VASCAR2 - 12-09-2017
This topic came up a couple weeks ago, this thread might help. Others are welcome to chime in again on this thread.
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?15481-Anyone-have-experience-with-a-linear-compensator
The google custom search is an ideal way to find a thread where information was previously posted. There are many topics/discussions/threads on this forum in regards to gas ports, adjustable gas blocks, buffers, available chambers SAAMI vs Variant, muzzle devices and a host of other topics. The custom search feature allows members to get the wealth of information that is available on this site.
There are many members on this site with an incrediable amount of knowledge who are unable to spend as much time on this forum as some of us other members. Their information, technical knowledge and expertise is invaluable. I’m referring to Bill Alexander, Bob Stokes and Mark from PF plus numerous other members.
This forum continues to grow and sorry for the thread hijack.
https://cse.google.com/cse/home?cx=016368947416500061353:paqd_0xcu1o&hl=en
Muzzle Devices - grayfox - 12-09-2017
I have that too, from nuclear steam plant and machinery noise (40+yrs)... I use some muzzle brakes but in any case - Linear comp, brake, or none- using double hearing protection anytime on the line. Then electronic muffs while in the woods.
Muzzle Devices - olde sarge - 12-09-2017
Well VASCAR2, now that I have been soundly chastised and used as a whipping boy, thank you for the thread.
Muzzle Devices - olde sarge - 12-09-2017
Grayfox, I didn't know what they were called (linear Comps). I made it through 22 yrs in the Army without any sign of hearing loss. Went to work as a machinist after I retired from the Army and all of a sudden had signs of hearing loss. Didn't know that machine shop noise as low as it was would compound to cause hearing loss until it was too late.
Muzzle Devices - VASCAR2 - 12-09-2017
I wasn’t intending to chastise you olde sarge, being a peon I would never consider doing that. I just find the custom search very useful and I frequently use it. Being retired I probably spend to much time on gun forums but age hasn’t helped my memory. I frequently think I’ve read something posted before or want specific information and use the custom search to find it.
This forum is getting several new members every week so I mention the custom sesrch from time to time.
No offense intented sarge and I appologize for the thread hijack.
Muzzle Devices - grayfox - 12-09-2017
Linear compensators throw the blast forward - most of them do it at somewhat of an angle off the exact bore centerline to give some braking, but the blast noise and thrust all goes forward, which reduces the decibels heard by the shooter.
Each form of muzzle device has its pros and cons.
Vascar knows a lot too! This is a really great forum with tons of expertise.
Muzzle Devices - Lastrites - 12-09-2017
I have a Hera Arms LC-S Linear Compensator-Small on a short 5.56 and oh what a difference it makes as I too have a bit of T-ringing. While this particular one wouldn't work with the Grendel they make a couple others that are 5/8x24 threaded, my neighbor has one on his KAK sbr 308 and it's actually quite pleasant to shoot as pleasant as a sbr 308 can be and these are not like most linear comps on the market which are mostly a hollow cone/sleeve.
https://www.rainierarms.com/hera-arms-linear-compensator/
https://www.rainierarms.com/hera-arms-lc-linear-compensator-308-5-8x24/?nosto=nosto-page-product1
Muzzle Devices - just_john - 12-10-2017
olde sarge - am a joint sufferer of significant hearing loss and non-stop tinnitus ( mostly from unprotected gunfire as a much younger person ). I have Grendels with more conventional muzzle devices and one with a "linear compensator". There is some difference with the sound levels back to me ( or other shooters ) but not a lot. There was an interesting discussion on this forum ( I think ) about the mechanics of ear / hearing damage and the use of hearing protection vs weapon-mounted sound suppression. One of the major points was that even the best "over or in the ear" protection was not sufficient as there is substantial transmission of sound impulse thru the structure of the weapon device which is then conducted thru the bone structure to our hearing mechanics. I am an engineer and spent many years developing sound systems for capture and modificaiton of human speech and one of the real issues was how well bone conduction works.
I said all that to say that if sound impule mitigation is a serious concern ( and it should be ) then the process of trying to re-direct sound for that purpose is only marginally successful. The real challange would be to reduce the conduction of the sound impulse from the weapon system to the skeletal system.
Perhaps this could be a challange to some of the other members within this forum to consider / propose ways to do that. There are a lot of really talanted folks across this group - any ideas?
Muzzle Devices - Dcommoncents - 12-10-2017
just_john Wrote:One of the major points was that even the best "over or in the ear" protection was not sufficient as there is substantial transmission of sound impulse thru the structure of the weapon device which is then conducted thru the bone structure to our hearing mechanics.
This is interesting, I haven't heard of this concern previously. Intuitively, it would seem that the majority of the sound impulse reaching the inner ear would be conducted through the cheek and jaw bones. I can see a simple but inelegant solution (or at least mitigating measure) to that being the application of some type of adhesive foam applied to the stock to insulate the shooter's face.
Muzzle Devices - zcostilla - 12-10-2017
Check this comparison out. Many of these also have 7.62 options with 5/8 threads.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/11/jeremy-s/556-muzzle-device-shootout/
Muzzle Devices - just_john - 12-11-2017
I will take simple and effective over elegant any day. The "crickets" are really making themselves at home but are really not appreciated.
Muzzle Devices - just_john - 12-11-2017
There are a number of studies in various disciplines about the nerve systems in the jaw. That probably is the primary acoustic path. Possibly some form of soft foam, loosely attached or constrained so as to not resonate might be of benefit.
Muzzle Devices - Armadillo66 - 12-11-2017
I like the ones that Smith Enterprise builds. Their "Good Iron" series. I had one on my M1 Garand and it really worked good and was easy to clean and change out for the stock barrel end on the Garand since the Muzzle Brake was not allowed for CMP competition. But it sure came in handy for recoil reduction, great accuracy and quality of construction
http://www.smithenterprise.com/products04.01.html
Muzzle Devices - grayfox - 12-11-2017
just_john Wrote:There are a number of studies in various disciplines about the nerve systems in the jaw. That probably is the primary acoustic path. Possibly some form of soft foam, loosely attached or constrained so as to not resonate might be of benefit.
JJ - the foam (cheek weld & butt of stock) was my first thought as well. However, even though the main bone-pathway is probably cheekbone/jaw, and a secondary thru the shoulder/arm... and no disrespect to the studies, but it seems most of the acoustic shock wave would propagate out away from the muzzle (ie, in the air) with the expanding gasses/powder residue, and the bullet (both sets >> mach speeds), rather than back through the rifle? I haven't read those studies so I could be off-base. Anyway, the bulk of my hearing losses came from steam whistling through large pipes, and whirling machinery noises from large turbines (1000 MW-output steam turbines) and pumps (some >10,000 hp!!)...
As a p.s., wouldn't using foam at the cheek weld interfere somewhat with that very cheek weld, so a shooter will have a tendency to compress it before the shot, which then would interfere with the sound dampening...?
Muzzle Devices - just_john - 12-11-2017
gf - hearing loss is accumulative, non-healing and accumulates on a logrithmic scale. You may have had significant loss while in the military but it did not reach the threshold of "awareness" until more damage was done - ie, steam pipes, etc. I believe my major damage was done back in the mid-70's, shooting under a tin roof with minimal ( if any ) hearing protection. But, the ringing didn't start until I started spending a lot of time flying and a flight had cabin pressure problems while I had a "really good" head cold ( ears were seriously plugged up ). Because of the work that I did at the time, had access to sound-proof room with tone generators so I did a lot of "self-testing" and saw a rapid degredation of both hearing sensitivity and frequency capture. Now, everything above 4.5kHz is gone, if there is any background noise in the room, discernment of speech is difficult and the ringing is always about 3dB above ambient room noise and constant. My greatest issue now is the inability to hear / understand my younger grandson and some women's voices ( not always a bad thing? ). Have tried some hearing aids but they just make the ringing louder.
Every frequency of sound that issues from the muzzle also propogates back thru the weapon. And, at the moment of impulse, everything that moves makes a sound. If it isn't dampened by something, then it oscillates. If it oscillates, it propogates. There is a broad range of frequencies that are generated by this impulse, the lower the frequency, the greater its ability to transfer that impulse sound to / thru other components and materials.
Muzzle Devices - grayfox - 12-11-2017
I'm with ya bro on all points!! I've been doing some studying on the pressure wave propagation of the powder burn and would agree that some transmission occurs thru the rifle during/after the shot and all of the mechanical movements.
Were there some decibel levels for the waves coming back thru the gun to the shooter?
And +1 on the wife's voice levels... my losses start I think around 6-9Khz... Navy had steam pipes as well that's where it started I'm sure (72-80).
O well, the USN did a lot of good for me so I won't complain too much!
Sorry not trying to hijack or anything...