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New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - Willfg - 10-19-2017
Hi All,
Been lurking on the forums but since I'm getting close to building a new Grendel upper I have a question regarding scope mounts.
Here's what I'm doing
I currently have an AR in 300 blk and am having a Grendel upper built (living behind enemy lines in Commiefornia, less complicated to do just the upper rather than a whole new rifle). Parts so far:
*Midwest Industries G3 rail (lightweight), bolt carrier, gas block
*BHW 20" barrel
*VG6 Gamma 65 muzzle break
*BCM charging handle (not ambi, large latch)
*Custom (Cason Engineering) upper (from the guy who did my Blackout upper and lower) and bolt (from the same guy)
*All the other bits and pieces are mil spec and based on deals I found or extra parts laying around.
Current scope is a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10, FFP on an ADM QD mount.
Purpose: target plinking fun (of course), long range fun (no competition), hunting
Question(s):
Scope. For long range fun, at what distance will I probably want something with more magnification? And, if I'm thinking trying to reach 1000yds, any recommendations on how high of a magnification to go for? Eyes are ok, but I'm in my 50's so not as good as my younger days/
Scope mount. My current mount is an ADM Recon...I like it, its easy to use, holds zero well when I change back and forth with my red dot, etc. Thinking about that 1000yd reach, I'm thinking I need something more like the 20 moa version...but I don't know if its needed and if most my shooting is going to be 100yds to 300yds what kind of issues, if any, does having that elevation in the scope create?
Any and all input is appreciated, including "you're an idiot and thinking about it wrong" (as long as there's a suggestion on how to think about it
PS I reload everything I shoot now (various pistol calibers and 300blk) and will do so for the Grendel. I have a Hornady LnL AP press and mostly Hornady Custom dies. I recently changed to a Forster micrometer seating die for 300blk and really like it (seems to hold the bullet and case better than the Hornady die). Any suggestions on a seating die?
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - VASCAR2 - 10-19-2017
With most scopes your going to run out of elevation adjustment around 800 yards if you shoot close to sea level. At higher elevations in the mountains out west you might get by without a 20 MOA mount. The higher magnification scopes come at the penalty of more bulk and weight on your rifle.
I have a 20” 6.5 Grendel and I put a Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 mil dot scope in a 30 mm one piece 20 MOA mount. A Friend put a Vortex PST 4-16x50 on his 18” 6.5 Grendel with mil reticle. I like both scopes and another Friend put a Mark AR Leupold 4-12 on his 18” 6.5 Grendel. I think any scope in these magnification range are a good fit for the 6.5 Grendel.
My last 16” 6.5 Grendel I assembled I used a Warne 1” tube 20 MOA mount.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - Jaggy13 - 10-19-2017
If you don't care about weight, then throw a telescope up there!
I have a 4.5x30 on my precision rifle. I can't tell you how much, maybe 90% of the time, I'm around 10-12 power.
But when I want to really zoom in, I can.
good glass is addicting. get some and start enjoying it.
Plus on that thing weight just soaks up the recoil.
I'm going with a 2-12 but I got the nicest glass I could afford. It's not as light as your PST, but that was a consideration.
I'm planning on varmitting or deer hunting with mine, so trying to keep weight down.
For me instead of magnification its the focus that I really embrace.
you can roll the focus from near to far and see the mirage for the given distance it's focus at.
I do that to watch for swirls or eddies in the wind.
Plus if you get something really nice and build a bolt gun later, you can just move that over and decide what to do then.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - Klem - 10-20-2017
Jaggy13 Wrote:If you don't care about weight, then throw a telescope up there!
I have a 4.5x30 on my precision rifle. I can't tell you how much, maybe 90% of the time, I'm around 10-12 power.
But when I want to really zoom in, I can.
good glass is addicting. get some and start enjoying it.
Plus on that thing weight just soaks up the recoil.
I'm going with a 2-12 but I got the nicest glass I could afford. It's not as light as your PST, but that was a consideration.
I'm planning on varmitting or deer hunting with mine, so trying to keep weight down.
For me instead of magnification its the focus that I really embrace.
you can roll the focus from near to far and see the mirage for the given distance it's focus at.
I do that to watch for swirls or eddies in the wind.
Plus if you get something really nice and build a bolt gun later, you can just move that over and decide what to do then.
+1, nicely said Jaggy.
'Buy once, cry once'. You will never wear out a scope by looking through it, and unless you use it as a tyre lever you will be able to hand it down to you kids. With good quality glass you will be able to see impact holes in paper out to 500M. That will save you walking downrange or carrying an extra spotting scope. Or, having to shoot with someone down in the butts with a radio (at least to 500m).
I first started F Class competition with a Leupold 6.5-20*50 (Leupold admit their 20* in the Mk4 LR-T is actually only 19*). 19* worked out to 1,000yds, but only because the holes were being spotted, and more recently by the Kongsberg electronic target system with a TV monitor next you. At the lower end it's 6.5 is a reasonable hunting magnification so that's why I chose it. F-Class targets are huge so you can get away with lower magnifications. I wouldn't go less than 20* however for 1,000yd shooting. long range shooters nowadays use 40*- 60* scopes. March sells a very expensive 8-80*56mm scope. This is of course useless for typical hunting so it's going to be a compromise in your situation. You can get away with a 10* scope for long range shooting but you will always be on 10* and always wanting more zoom.
Painting steel is another way around needing good glass. Big splash marks and sound to let you know what's happening. Obviously the further the steel is the less chance you're going to hear it, especially when wearing double-ear protection.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - StoneHendge - 10-20-2017
Depends on what your shooting at 1000 yards. I shoot steel and have scopes wit max magnification from 16 to 30x and am always around 15-16 no matter the caliber (223 and Grendel to 65cm and 308) so I can maintain sight picture and watch my hits (misses). I'm in my early 50s and my eyes are fading to the point that I do reticle holdovers since I can't read the turret when I come off the scope
The only time I find myself at max mag is when zeroing or shooting groups during load development
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - lrgrendel - 10-20-2017
AADMOUNT with 20MOA built in. Built like a tank but not cheap.
Schmidt and Bender or Nightforce if you are rich! Or a Vortex with a life time warranty...
Regarding scope power, my opinion is always go for the highest power, (eg 6-24) you can always turn it down.
Glass clarity, durability and tracking is important again for 1000 yds and hunting.
Also you going to go MIL or MOA? Something to think about as all models don’t come in both.
Hope this helps
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - Willfg - 10-20-2017
Thank you all for the information and suggestions -- greatly appreciated and extremely helpful.
The AADMOUNT does look really nice!
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - Bushwack44 - 10-23-2017
FWIW, I have a Nikon Prostaff 5 4.5-18x40 on a 20" SS upper. I've taken it as far as 600 yards ( take it up to 12 - 14x). But I think I would have been better off with a fixed 16x or maybe 20x (for going as far as 1,000 yards). Just couldn't pass up on the bargain price the Nikon was.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - elfman - 10-27-2017
May want to take a look at the Burris Signature line of rings with the PosiAlign ring insert. I have used these on several builds and have been happy so far. You can get the same effect as a 20 MOA mount and can also correct for windage alignment while bore sighting. Also, no lapping required. No problems with bent tubes or scope slipping, but I have not personally used them on a magnum caliber. The most recent model is a 6 screw tactical rig. As for glass, Nightforce would be at the top of my list, but for overall value, I bought Vortex without regret. HS LR 6x24x50 FFP with XLR MOA reticle. That glass will get you to 1000 yds with a 20 MOA mount setup.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - bj139 - 10-27-2017
Get a scope with reticle and turrets in the same units, either MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA.
Otherwise, you will always be converting units. PITA.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - diddlyv - 10-27-2017
I used the ADM Recon 30 MM 20 MOA to mount my Vortex Viper 6.5-20 x 44 on my 20 Inch DMR contour barreled Grendel. Found it on line for $166 and free shipping
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - Jakegsxr11 - 11-07-2017
I really like my SWFA SS 3-15. I hate the aero ultralight Mount, wish I would have went with the Burris PEPR like on my 5.56 AR.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - Lastrites - 11-07-2017
Jake what do not like about the aero mount? I have a SWFA branded PEPR mount and I wished I had gotten the aero.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - Crews - 11-08-2017
The ADM mounts are nice and perform well, but I would suggest staying away from any mounts with vertically split rings if youre going to be dialing elevation corrections in the future. Some pretty compelling arguments surfaced here recently about their negative affects on a scope body. Not a HUGE deal, but worth thinking about if youre going to start from scratch. You can do just as well moving scopes around with a bolt-on unimount and a Wheeler Fat Wrench.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - Willfg - 11-08-2017
Thanks to all for the continuing feedback...really helpful (and helping me be sure to cry once
)
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - Jakegsxr11 - 11-11-2017
The mount twists the optic when tightening down due to the clamp design. It was more difficult than necessary to level the scope. I also had to use blue thread locker on all the screws because they constantly loosen up. I did not run into either of these issues on my PEPR mount, however that it's using a smaller 2-8 scope not a 3-15 and on a 5.56 not a 6.5.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - wilecoyote - 11-11-2017
I go with the 20 MOA mount as it's there if and when it may be needed.
In hunting for a mount I looked at Bobro, ADM and LaRue. They all seem to make really nice mounts, if a mount is what you're looking for vs rings. I narrowed down to ADM and LaRue because I ran into some reports of the Bobro coming lose and allowing shifts. This may not be the case anymore, but there was a video out there.
In the end I went with the LaRue LT745 20 MOA with the quick detach option. The LT745 allowed my choice of scope to be mounted in a location better for me. This is where I am a big fan of LaRue's product. This mount has worked well and I have removed the optics on my Grendel and Creedmoor several times and both have returned you zero without issue.
I did some looking before I bought my optic. I say optic because I used the same brand and model on both my rifles. I had owned a Vortex that was a nice scope. The reasons I sold it was SFP and a plex reticle. Having used a Vortex it the brand made my list of possibilities along with US Optics, Nightforce and Steiner. S&B was there, but prices in my range were a little higher.
I ended up getting Steiner 3-12x50 Military Tactical scopes that are mil/mil. They are built like tanks (the weight is reflective of it). The G2B reticle is a little more complicated than a standard mildot, but not overly busy. They have the big 34mm tube and an illuminated reticle. The illumination; to be honest, I haven't used much. The illumination has a lot of different brightness settings. The scopes have zero stops which are really nice and came from Steiner with stops preset for a 20 MOA.
I've been really happy with these scopes and Steiner will be near the top of my list for other rifle projects I have going. Anyone that has shot my rifles have really liked the optics.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - Busted Bones - 11-12-2017
You don't need some of the extreme high magnifications guys are mentioning here. Glass clarity is more important than top end magnification. That said, I was shooting a 20" Grendel with the Burris XTR II 3-15X score with a 20 MOA mount. It's perfect for the Grendel, and I'm saving for one for my build after I make some other purchases.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - LRRPF52 - 11-12-2017
I have the same Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 and shoot out to 1000yds pretty regularly.
You definitely need 20 MOA cant for the scope mount. I need it even up at higher elevation in the mountains and basins where I live. At 4500ft ASL, I'm still at around 10.8 mils with a 123gr target bullet for drop.
I have NightForce UniMount and LaRue mounts with 20 MOA cant, and started purging my mounts that are heavy or don't have 20 MOA for my dual-purpose guns.
I prefer glass clarity over magnification as well.
New to Grendel, scope and scope mount question - Willfg - 11-13-2017
LRRPF52 Wrote:I have the same Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 and shoot out to 1000yds pretty regularly.
You definitely need 20 MOA cant for the scope mount. I need it even up at higher elevation in the mountains and basins where I live. At 4500ft ASL, I'm still at around 10.8 mils with a 123gr target bullet for drop.
I have NightForce UniMount and LaRue mounts with 20 MOA cant, and started purging my mounts that are heavy or don't have 20 MOA for my dual-purpose guns.
I prefer glass clarity over magnification as well.
That's good to hear...I have that same scope. I'll start with the 20 MOA mount and see how I do with the Viper.