+- 6.5 Grendel Forum (https://65grendel.com)
+-- Forum: 6.5 GRENDEL DISCUSSION FORUMS (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: 6.5 Grendel ARs and Other Semi-Autos (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Thread: CMMG 6.5 Grendel (/showthread.php?tid=14021)
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - VASCAR2 - 09-05-2017
Another manufacture has joined in production of 6.5 Grendel AR-15's! I just saw today that CMMG has joined the 6.5 Grendel community.
https://www.cmmginc.com/product-category/rifles/6-5-grendel/
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - LRRPF52 - 09-05-2017
That has the Anvil receiver set and BCG, with a much larger bolt. Very interesting development.
That's a similar size to the Mutant 7.62x39 rifle they have, but with a lower that takes AR15 mags.
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - m796rider - 09-05-2017
Wow, that's cool. Wish CMMG would open up the mag well a tad to allow the use of something like the Six8 PMAGs... Certainly the receiver set is capable of such!
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - montana - 09-05-2017
CMMG is now making the Mutant in 6.5 Grendel. https://www.cmmginc.com/product-category/rifles/6-5-grendel/
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - NugginFutz - 09-05-2017
Excellent news - here is a thread consolidation link...
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?14838-CMMG-6-5-Grendel
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - CavityBackBullets - 09-05-2017
[video=youtube_share;YSKLFhRiWEQ]https://youtu.be/YSKLFhRiWEQ[/video]
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - montana - 09-05-2017
I missed the other thread, thanks.
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - SHORT-N-SASSY - 09-06-2017
It's about time !!! ---
![[Image: Powerbolt.png]](https://s26.postimg.org/6zh3tr44p/Powerbolt.png)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=374H07JJ7ME)
![[Image: Powerbolt_A.png]](https://s26.postimg.org/wnhsu6kdl/Powerbolt_A.png)
(http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/rifles/cmmg-mkw-anvil-rifle-6-5-grendel/#anvil65-ex-right/)
![[Image: Powerbolt_B.png]](https://s26.postimg.org/v4r02y36x/Powerbolt_B.png)
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - Kilco - 09-06-2017
Wow very very interesting!
I have very little experience with these, but based on reviews and write ups, it seems the Anvil is a solid rifle, but wasn't the mutant very quirky with all kinds of issues in the 7.62x39? I only remember reading this when it was first released however long ago... is this still the case or did they get it straightened out?
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - SHORT-N-SASSY - 09-06-2017
Shades of the Remington R15 30 AR (https://rifleshooter.com/2011/07/rifleshooter-com-review-remington-r15-30ar-model-60100/)
![[Image: 30_Rem_AR.png]](https://s26.postimg.org/e3cv8tqcp/30_Rem_AR.png)
Hornady 6.5mm Grendel 123-gr ELD Match, MV - 2580 fps (24" BBL), BC - 0.506
![[Image: Black.png]](https://s26.postimg.org/b7zs1ymcp/Black.png)
(https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/6.5-grendel-123-gr-eld-match-black#!)
CMMG, thank you for seeing the light!
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - Kilco - 09-06-2017
OFF-TOPIC!! But I just picked up a 30 Rem AR! What a beast!! 110 TAC-TX at 3100fps! Whitetail laser beam.
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - mongoosesnipe - 09-06-2017
while i am all more more grendel proliferation a 16" mutant grendel rifle weighs 8.4 pounds a 16" ar10 platform weighs 8.4 pounds https://armalite.com/shop/ar-10-tactical-16/ so whats the gain
While the mutant is stronger your not gaining any case length with the ak mag so you cant really fit anymore powder so its still not viable turn a grendel into a 260 deal which is a foolish pipe dream anyway so if your going to carry the same wight as a ar10 why not just carry an ar10 an not be limited to proprietary parts and if you want grendel you can chamber the ar10 for grendel and gain some case length via the longer magazine or just chamber the ar10 for one of the larger 6.5s if your buying quality ammo grendel and the larger 6.5 are virtually the same cost and if you are loading the difference is 4 cents worth of powder that buys you up to 400 fps
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - Kswhitetails - 09-06-2017
mongoosesnipe Wrote:while i am all more more grendel proliferation a 16" mutant grendel rifle weighs 8.4 pounds a 16" ar10 platform weighs 8.4 pounds https://armalite.com/shop/ar-10-tactical-16/ so whats the gain
While the mutant is stronger your not gaining any case length with the ak mag so you cant really fit anymore powder so its still not viable turn a grendel into a 260 deal which is a foolish pipe dream anyway so if your going to carry the same wight as a ar10 why not just carry an ar10 an not be limited to proprietary parts and if you want grendel you can chamber the ar10 for grendel and gain some case length via the longer magazine or just chamber the ar10 for one of the larger 6.5s if your buying quality ammo grendel and the larger 6.5 are virtually the same cost and if you are loading the difference is 4 cents worth of powder that buys you up to 400 fps
EXACTLY. You typed my reply. Before I finished typing. And better. I gladly hit the delete button a few seconds to simply copy and paste... EXACTLY...
oh... and the cost. That too.
Oh - maybe sell me a barrel extension, and a bolt, and we're golden though. That part's very interesting.
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - bj139 - 09-06-2017
CavityBackBullets Wrote:[video=youtube_share;YSKLFhRiWEQ]https://youtu.be/YSKLFhRiWEQ[/video]No supersonic crack. Are these subsonic rounds?
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - LRRPF52 - 09-06-2017
For those talking about wall thickness on bolts, consider this:
SCAR-17 on the left, .473" case head diameter, 62000psi max working pressure. Control your metallurgy, and bolt life isn't an issue.
5.56 bolt on the right.
![[Image: P7030007.JPG]](https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aYOWixYlHLU/ThDapLM5XzI/AAAAAAAABT8/1kCICWFAyoE/s1600/P7030007.JPG)
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - Kswhitetails - 09-06-2017
LRRPF52 Wrote:For those talking about wall thickness on bolts, consider this:
SCAR-17 on the left, .473" case head diameter, 62000psi max working pressure. Control your metallurgy, and bolt life isn't an issue.
5.56 bolt on the right.
Agreed, LR. However, I'm very interested in a 62K PSI rated Grendel bolt, with large lugs and a deep beefy bolt face and extractor.
I don't believe the Grendel bolt is a problem as is, but wasn't it developed from a bolt designed for another caliber all together(7.69x39), and simply because it was readily available at the time? I am still surprised as much as I have read about the Grendel's development that it's own unique larger-diameter bolt face and barrel extension were never adopted. I realize there is something to be said about parts interchangeability... but in 99% of Grendel set-ups, you're buying barrels chambered in Grendel that already have extensions installed. I don't think adopting and installing a unique extension to match the already different bolt change much in that respect. Admittedly though, I am no firearms engineer, and there are many assumptions that are probably way off on my part. Just throwing out my thoughts as I go along this Grendel journey.
There are reasons the larger cases (in this case Grendel vs 5.56) have additional material in the lugs to support the webbing on the bolt face around the case head. Longevity and reliability being preeminent. I refer to the Anvil's bolt face image above. I can't see how this is anything other than a good idea for the Grendel bolt. Hell, simply adding a few thousandths in the webbings and bases of the lugs would change the strength ratings considerably...
This is America, bigger is better! (with the caveat that we're only speaking about the barrel extension and the bolt face. Leave my lightweight XR15 platform alone...)
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - LRRPF52 - 09-06-2017
Once you use a larger barrel extension, you just killed AR15 parts commonality with one of the most important parts for the AR15 frame.
6.5 Grendel used the .50 Beowulf bolt, which was engineered on the coat tails of the Colt 7.62x39 bolt (something the after-market still has not researched and followed other than Bill A. and Beowulf).
The other issue is pushing pressure from such a small frame, which increases recoil, muzzle blast, sights coming off target, and slower recovery. The thoughts behind it all were, if you push more and make the COL longer, you need a new lower, new upper, new extension, etc. Might as well just go to the larger AR10 frame at that point.
One of the main pivotal pillars of Grendel's success is that you can drop it on an existing lower and go, or build it up on any of the AR15 uppers on the market. That is huge for gaining acceptance from the market.
CMMG has a mid-sized platform meant to handle larger case head dims, starting with 7.62x39, that would also take AK mags on the Mutant lower. They then introduced a .458 SOCOM.
Because the market is so wide, with everyone and their brother competing for shares, I think it made a lot of sense for CMMG to try to expand sales of the Anvil series by going this direction. Some people will be happy with it, while others will want to stick with AR15 compatibility. We'll see how those numbers play out as time goes on.
Either way, one thing is certain, and that is that popularity of 6.5 Grendel is driven by its performance, and a grassroots movement of demand is being fed by response from the ammunition makers.
The Wolf steel case has been a large force in driving this due to the affordability of ammunition.
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - Kswhitetails - 09-06-2017
Oh, I too am a complete convert to the Grendel. Like you say so pointedly, for no other reason than that of the performance.
My thought is as follows: Why couldn't you ream out the inside diameter of the standard barrel extension a few thousandths to allow for the increased bolt dimensions? .030/.040. As long as the lugs could hold the bolt forward. But with the low working pressure of the Grendel, I would think this to be a lesser issue?
My thought is simply that if you could add some beef to the lugs, walls, and extractor while staying within the 15 platform, you would likely curb the only thing folks complain about the Grendel which is "bolt breakages". I'm with you here, show me the data.
Just a thought.
Not just ammo makers, look at the growth in the Grendel world. If Noveske, CMMG, Larue, see it - then who else is next? People all around the industry are starting to get it. The performance is overcoming the personalities and (supposed) bickering and pride. I have absolutely no doubt that in 30 years, the Grendel will be an extremely common round. It just fits too many pieces together well with too many obvious benefits. Any bets on how long it is till we see 6.5 Grendel MAM/MAUM? >
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - LRRPF52 - 09-06-2017
POF actually intruded on the ID of the teeth on the barrel extension for the Revolution, so there is more room for the lugs on the bolt, but that's for a .473" case head (.308 Win.)
It's a good idea to have a balance between bolt lugs and barrel extension teeth, rather than make one smaller than the other.
If you use wider bolt lugs, you are now applying more leverage during bolt thrust against the lug roots of the bolt, unless you increase the OD of the bolt body at the root. For every action, there is some other compromise.
With the CMMG Anvil frame, the hope is to continue the relationship with the customer's trust on buying complete rifles.
With 6.5 Grendel, there is a very strong argument to be made for doing that since the manufacturer can now control everything under one roof and make the gun work from the start.
The LaRue Grendel really made me a believer in that, after decades of not buying factory AR15s, and I do a lot of things during a build now that most builders have never heard of.
CMMG 6.5 Grendel - mongoosesnipe - 09-06-2017
Kswhitetails Wrote:Oh, I too am a complete convert to the Grendel. Like you say so pointedly, for no other reason than that of the performance.
My thought is as follows: Why couldn't you ream out the inside diameter of the standard barrel extension a few thousandths to allow for the increased bolt dimensions? .030/.040. As long as the lugs could hold the bolt forward. But with the low working pressure of the Grendel, I would think this to be a lesser issue?
My thought is simply that if you could add some beef to the lugs, walls, and extractor while staying within the 15 platform, you would likely curb the only thing folks complain about the Grendel which is "bolt breakages". I'm with you here, show me the data.
Just a thought.
Not just ammo makers, look at the growth in the Grendel world. If Noveske, CMMG, Larue, see it - then who else is next? People all around the industry are starting to get it. The performance is overcoming the personalities and (supposed) bickering and pride. I have absolutely no doubt that in 30 years, the Grendel will be an extremely common round. It just fits too many pieces together well with too many obvious benefits. Any bets on how long it is till we see 6.5 Grendel MAM/MAUM? >
from a reliability stand point i actually prefer the bolt to be slightly weaker than the lugs in the extension if you break a bolt lug its potentially a 1 minute fix to swap in a new bolt if you break a lug off an extension there is a lot more to fix and you will need to re headspace the barrel after installing a new extension which is considerably more work than a bolt swap as long as one can accept the grendel for what it is bolt life is 5k+ as long as it was a good part to start with and standard loads will carry to 900m+ before getting trans sonic which is a hell of a thing out of a 6-7 pound gun
as soon as you beef the platform up to start messing with higher pressures to try and make it something its not just go to the thing its not you will be farther
personally i would build a light weight ar10 before i tried beefing up an ar15 im all for innovation and am not afraid of a wild cat cartridge but the grendel is pretty good the way it is
i just got a 6.5 brm barrel for my contender its good for 2500 with 140 class bullets which is plenty during load work up and powder experimentation i accidentally got to 2700 fps there was no harm but the action was stiff to open my goal was 2500 with a powder readily available to be which i found while 2700 seems better there is no such thing as a free lunch and just because something can do something doesn't mean it should