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5.56 effectiveness data - Printable Version

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5.56 effectiveness data - Drift - 07-07-2016

Well, if we can post about mortars on this thread I guess I can point out some things about the 5.56.
Recently, in Orlando the round was used. Just over 100 targets hit, just under 50 deaths. The range (I assume as I have never been in a gay bar) was short. So short that weather it was 5.56 or .223 ammo probably doesn't matter. The targets were all American sized. The shooter was proficient. A modern first class trauma center was close by to give the wounded every chance.
While I'm sure a crime scene investigation unit will analyse the heck out of it, a reasonable man can conclude (1) The 5.56/.223 will kill <50% of the time-even under ideal conditions. (2)55.56/.223 will not penetrate a SWAT helmet. (3)The weapon used (unlike the AR that jammed in the Colorado movie shootings) was more dependable then an AR 15.

5.56 effectiveness data - 79inpa - 07-08-2016

I've shot enough deer with .222 and 63 grain sierra bullets to wager that the 556 with the right bullet in it is better than 50 percent gun. My only concern with the .223 is whether a bullet in it that is designed to penetrate and expand in the round will have enough sauce to penetrate a barrier and kill an attacked before he has enough time to kill me or an innocent bystander.

50 percent of the people shot lived because the shooter was having problems making good hits on people that were panicked or appeared to have been already killed when in reality they were only stuck by prior pass through shots.

5.56 effectiveness data - stanc - 07-08-2016

Drift Wrote:While I'm sure a crime scene investigation unit will analyse the heck out of it, a reasonable man can conclude (2)5.56/.223 will not penetrate a SWAT helmet.
Nonsense. Over the last couple decades, many people have tested 5.56 against Kevlar helmets. Given a good hit, 5.56 cuts through a helmet like the proverbial hot knife through butter.

Fast forward to 6:16 in the video below.

[video=youtube;AdYAC6ag6q4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdYAC6ag6q4[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdYAC6ag6q4



If the Orlando SWAT helmet was hit by a 5.56 bullet, it had to have either been deformed and moving at much reduced velocity due to passing through an intermediate barrier before hitting the helmet, or it was a ricochet that was already flattened and moving at much reduced velocity.

[Image: pulse%20helmet_1465744525929_4773056_ver1.0_640_360.jpg]

5.56 effectiveness data - biodsl - 07-08-2016

Drift Wrote:The targets were all American sized. The shooter was proficient. A modern first class trauma center was close by to give the wounded every chance.

Well, not every chance. I don't think we'll ever know how many might have survived if they'd be able to GET to that trauma center. The three hour duration of the incident may mean some died that might have otherwise lived.

5.56 effectiveness data - Slappy - 07-09-2016

?????????

5.56 effectiveness data - LRRPF52 - 07-10-2016

The Colorado movie shooter didn't use an AR15. It was some imitation look-alike rifle with no TDP or Mil-spec foundation to speak of.

No specific cartridge is a 100% killer unless you get a CNS hit. Even lung shots can be survived somewhat easily if the EMS know how to treat a sucking chest wound and get you to a trauma center in reasonable time.

I've seen quite a few people shot at close range with 5.56 M855. The ones that survived would not have without a US Combat Trauma Management Echelons Of Care system in place.

5.56 effectiveness data - am4966 - 07-11-2016

Me personally I would really like to carry a weapon with a Cartridge other than 5.56 into battle. Also I was watching a documentary on snipers and a team was talking about the AR-10 and how it has problems with Jamming. So you couldn't rely on just carrying it. Your still need to have a back up weapon for when you're on the move. Just like the teams that have Bolt actions for sniping.

5.56 effectiveness data - Klem - 07-12-2016

My thoughts are it depends on what sort of target you want to destroy, and that depends on velocity and bullet.

Here is a picture of a high-tensile 1/2" steel target. Four calibres have been hammering it at 100yds; 7.62, 6.5Gr, 5.56 and 300BLK. One 5.56 with a SS109 tungsten penetrator bullet was fired at it. The SS109 has been the only round to penetrate.

[Image: Biseloy_zpsalf3fnvn.jpg]

Close-up.
[Image: Close%20up%20SS109_zpsfea1hmle.jpg]

Tungsten penetrator ammo is not the best choice for hunting however. As we all know, there are better choices for unarmoured flesh.

Notes
  • Only one SS109 projectile has been fired at the target.
  • The dimpled craters are ballistic tips.
  • The widest deepest craters are 7.62mm.
  • The 6.5Grendel leaves a wider, deeper crater than the faster/lighter .223 ballistic tip.
  • Shorter barrels with lower velocity leave shallower craters than the same calibre at higher velocity/longer barrels.
  • The subsonic Blackout using heavy 220gn SMK's only takes the paint off (no impact dent...One example, 2 O'clock towards the edge on the first picture).


5.56 effectiveness data - danm - 07-12-2016

Klem Wrote:My thoughts are it depends on what sort of target you want to destroy, and that depends on velocity and bullet.

Here is a picture of a high-tensile 1/2" steel target. Four calibres have been hammering it at 100yds; 7.62, 6.5Gr, 5.56 and 300BLK. One 5.56 with a SS109 tungsten penetrator bullet was fired at it. The SS109 has been the only round to penetrate.

[Image: Biseloy_zpsalf3fnvn.jpg]

Close-up.
[Image: Close%20up%20SS109_zpsfea1hmle.jpg]

Tungsten penetrator ammo is not the best choice for hunting however. As we all know, there are better choices for unarmoured flesh.

Notes
  • Only one SS109 projectile has been fired at the target.
  • The dimpled craters are ballistic tips.
  • The widest deepest craters are 7.62mm.
  • The 6.5Grendel leaves a wider, deeper crater than the faster/lighter .223 ballistic tip.
  • Shorter barrels with lower velocity leave shallower craters than the same calibre at higher velocity/longer barrels.
  • The subsonic Blackout using heavy 220gn SMK's only takes the paint off (no impact dent...One example, 2 O'clock towards the edge on the first picture).

Great info, and about what I would expect with the stated cartridges... Why I carry 3 mags of 77smk and 3 of m855 in my 10.5" AR vehicle bag... Now just need to build my 12.5" 6.5G upper Smile

5.56 effectiveness data - stanc - 07-12-2016

Klem Wrote:...high-tensile 1/2" steel target. Four calibres have been hammering it at 100yds; 7.62, 6.5Gr, 5.56 and 300BLK. One 5.56 with a SS109 tungsten penetrator bullet was fired at it. The SS109 has been the only round to penetrate.
FYI: SS109 has a steel penetrator, not tungsten.

5.56 effectiveness data - Kilco - 11-26-2016

Jeez guess I didn't know just how nasty those penetrators are... is that the same round as the 62gr green tip?