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Preaching to the Choir - LR1955 - 06-23-2016
Guys:
OK -- here you go!
A entire thread where you can 'preach to the choir'!
Now you can post all of the pro gun stats and commentaries you want.
Who knows, maybe some of them will breath some life into the guys who think there is no hope at all.
Just keep the weird conspiracy stuff out of the picture. We do not need to be convinced the left conspires to eliminate the 2A or why they want the 2A gone or at least rendered a privilege that is granted by a bureaucrat rather than a right.
As always, keep it civil please.
LR55
Preaching to the Choir - rabiddawg - 06-23-2016
Wow, 7 1/2 hrs and no comment.
LR did you lock your own thread
Preaching to the Choir - rwh - 06-24-2016
It's a lot harder if you can't use weird conspiracy stuff. Give it some time.
Preaching to the Choir - kmon - 06-24-2016
Few thoughts to get it rolling
We do not need more gun laws we have more than enough already. Enforce the laws we have. Why is the reporter in Chicago that was refused a gun still a free man? Oh they do not enforce that part of the law,
Chicago and Washington DC have some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, if more laws worked wouldn't those locations be safer than anywhere else in the country.
Mass shooting get all the press and the gun grabbers fired up but I think there have been more murders in Chicago this year than in mass shootings.
A LEO is dead from a gun provided in operation Fast and Furious, where is the punishment for gun trafficking?
Come on executive branch, your job is to enforce the laws not make them.
Not sure who to attribute this quote to but is a good one
"You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
Preaching to the Choir - biodsl - 06-24-2016
The congressman who can't seem to get off the terror watch list want's to deny constitutional right to those on the list???
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/07/18/rep-john-lewis-says-terror-watch-listing-still-causing-travel-problems-for-him.html
Preaching to the Choir - stanc - 06-24-2016
LR1955 Wrote:Guys:Heh, heh. I view typical "preaching to the choir" threads as mental masturbation. They make the participants feel good, but produce nothing.
OK -- here you go!
A entire thread where you can 'preach to the choir'!
Quote:We do not need to be convinced the left conspires to eliminate the 2A or why they want the 2A gone or at least rendered a privilege that is granted by a bureaucrat rather than a right.It's a little late for concern about that. It's been a privilege for a very long time.
- Want to legally buy a handgun? Government approval required.
- Want to legally buy a rifle? Government approval required.
- Want to legally buy a machine gun? Government approval required.
- Want to legally buy a short-barreled rifle? Government approval required.
- Want to legally but a sound suppressor? Government approval required.
- Want to legally buy a grenade launcher? Government approval required.
- Want to legally carry a concealed weapon? Government approval required.
And the list goes on and on...
Preaching to the Choir - stanc - 06-24-2016
rwh Wrote:It's a lot harder if you can't use weird conspiracy stuff. Give it some time.Try this: Most gun owners are actually opponents of the 2nd Amendment. They want "reasonable restrictions."
The only difference between them and the anti-gun crowd is in what restrictions each side considers "reasonable."
Preaching to the Choir - rwh - 06-24-2016
That's not a conspiracy, more like an astute observation. It's easy to fall into the trap where new restrictions are introduced because they don't affect us personally. I shoot a bolt gun so a semi auto ban is fine, or I only use 5 round magazines so a magazine limit is fine, or I'm not on the no fly list so go ahead and ban sales to people who are. It really is a slippery slope. Remember that there are people who think that it's common sense that nobody can have guns and to them common sense gun control is a complete ban. It happens one step at a time.
Preaching to the Choir - LR1955 - 06-24-2016
rabiddawg Wrote:Wow, 7 1/2 hrs and no comment.
LR did you lock your own thread
RD:
I had to check to see if I locked it myself a couple of times!
Reading some of the comments, this one is actually turning into something interesting.
Hopefully it will stay that way for at least today! He, he.
LR55
Preaching to the Choir - montana - 06-24-2016
LR1955 Wrote:RD:
I had to check to see if I locked it myself a couple of times!
Reading some of the comments, this one is actually turning into something interesting.
Hopefully it will stay that way for at least today! He, he.
LR55
Weird conspiracy stuff, mental masturbation, most want reasonable restrictions what ever that is,.................enjoy gentlemen!
Preaching to the Choir - rickOshay - 06-24-2016
We need to stop preaching to the choir and get out there and start converting
Ideas on how to better spread the word? Given logic and stats don't matter.
Preaching to the Choir - LR1955 - 06-24-2016
rickOshay Wrote:We need to stop preaching to the choir and get out there and start converting
Ideas on how to better spread the word? Given logic and stats don't matter.
Rick:
There were some decent ideas in the Protecting the 2A thread. Probably the best I have seen is by taking someone who is undecided to the range for some shooting.
I also accept that some look at banning all firearms as a religion and for them, about the only thing we can do is insulate ourselves by electing people who will protect our rights.
LR55
Preaching to the Choir - rickOshay - 06-24-2016
LR55 - agree.
Here's why I posted -
http://www.ammoland.com/2016/06/a-civilized-dialogue/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Great points made. But "opinions are fixed".
Preaching to the Choir - LR1955 - 06-24-2016
rickOshay Wrote:LR55 - agree.
Here's why I posted -
http://www.ammoland.com/2016/06/a-civilized-dialogue/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Great points made. But "opinions are fixed".
Rick:
Another thing that gun owners ought to start doing is believing they can win the war. Many are outright defeatists who believe we can never win against what ever massive conspiratorial entity is in vogue that day.
The Brits just voted to leave the EU after months of nothing but opposition by every news entity, every government official from both sides of their isle, by the EU and every other socialist in the world. Months of propaganda failed to sway them and they voted to become independent again. And I thought that the one world government bankers had so much power that it would be impossible for the average citizen to change anything? What happened there?
The thing many gun owners are lacking is the belief they can win the war.
LR55
Preaching to the Choir - Bravo Vector Tango - 06-24-2016
LR1955 Wrote:Rick:
Another thing that gun owners ought to start doing is believing they can win the war. Many are outright defeatists who believe we can never win against what ever massive conspiratorial entity is in vogue that day.
The Brits just voted to leave the EU after months of nothing but opposition by every news entity, every government official from both sides of their isle, by the EU and every other socialist in the world. Months of propaganda failed to sway them and they voted to become independent again. And I thought that the one world government bankers had so much power that it would be impossible for the average citizen to change anything? What happened there?
The thing many gun owners are lacking is the belief they can win the war.
LR55
I absolutely agree. if we've already lost in our minds, actual victory will be difficult to achieve.
I am in the process of re-reading American Sniper, and in the book Kyle talks about his time in BUDS at the Navy Special Warfare Training Center in Coronado, CA., and the infamous bell aspiring SEALs could ring at any time if they wanted out. Kyle explains that the instructors would always offer those with thoughts of leaving a second chance, and even encouraged them to stay - Kyle explains that he later learned, that the the very thought of defeat entering an aspiring SEAL's mind was unacceptable and grounds for scrutiny, and that men that took the 2nd chance, and continued training, never went on to become SEALs.
I am just an average civilian, but man, that stuck with me. We've all heard "train as you fight" right.. well this is the mental equivalent. THINK as you ACT.
and then there are the events between the Boston Tea Party in 1773 and cessation of offensive operations by British Parliament in 1782. The British were one of the biggest powers in the world at the time. I Feel we are all probably pretty well acquainted with this story. as we should be.
Ok, Freedom rant OFF, thanks for your time.
Preaching to the Choir - stanc - 06-24-2016
LR1955 Wrote:Another thing that gun owners ought to start doing is believing they can win the war. Many are outright defeatists who believe we can never win against what ever massive conspiratorial entity is in vogue that day.Gene,
The Brits just voted to leave the EU after months of nothing but opposition by every news entity, every government official from both sides of their isle, by the EU and every other socialist in the world. Months of propaganda failed to sway them and they voted to become independent again. And I thought that the one world government bankers had so much power that it would be impossible for the average citizen to change anything? What happened there?
The thing many gun owners are lacking is the belief they can win the war.
I guess you can put me in that category, except that I do not operate on belief. I use logic and evidence, and the historical evidence can be summed up in one question:
When has any major anti-gun law ever been repealed, anywhere?
Sure, we can win a battle now and then, but the war? The historical trend indicates otherwise.
Brexit notwithstanding, the British are an uninspiring example in this matter.
I remember reading about a British king centuries ago, who complained that his subjects preferred to spend their free time on the golf course instead of the archery range. Then, many years later, another British king outlawed the private possession of bows and arrows.
And look at the current British anti-gun laws, which are much worse than in this country, yet have been accepted by the UK public.
Stan
P.S. In regard to the Brexit vote, I predict that will prove to be no more than a brief, albeit entertaining anomaly, that will be barely noticed in the historical trend to a world government.
Preaching to the Choir - stanc - 06-24-2016
Bravo Vector Tango Wrote:and then there are the events between the Boston Tea Party in 1773 and cessation of offensive operations by British Parliament in 1782. The British were one of the biggest powers in the world at the time.We were fighting a defensive war, on our own turf, against the British.
We never were strong enough to take the fight to the enemy's homeland.
The French aided us immeasurably in the fight for independence.
The British were waging a war on two fronts, fighting France and Spain, as well as us.
If we had been on our own against the Brits -- if the French and Spanish had stayed out of it -- we might be singing "God Save The Queen" now, instead of "The Star Spangled Banner."
That's essentially the position that pro-2A people are in today. Outnumbered, waging a defensive battle, with no allies to help.
Preaching to the Choir - LR1955 - 06-25-2016
Bravo Vector Tango Wrote:I absolutely agree. if we've already lost in our minds, actual victory will be difficult to achieve.
I am in the process of re-reading American Sniper, and in the book Kyle talks about his time in BUDS at the Navy Special Warfare Training Center in Coronado, CA., and the infamous bell aspiring SEALs could ring at any time if they wanted out. Kyle explains that the instructors would always offer those with thoughts of leaving a second chance, and even encouraged them to stay - Kyle explains that he later learned, that the the very thought of defeat entering an aspiring SEAL's mind was unacceptable and grounds for scrutiny, and that men that took the 2nd chance, and continued training, never went on to become SEALs.
I am just an average civilian, but man, that stuck with me. We've all heard "train as you fight" right.. well this is the mental equivalent. THINK as you ACT.
and then there are the events between the Boston Tea Party in 1773 and cessation of offensive operations by British Parliament in 1782. The British were one of the biggest powers in the world at the time. I Feel we are all probably pretty well acquainted with this story. as we should be.
Ok, Freedom rant OFF, thanks for your time.
BVT:
How is that possibly a rant?
Something I have learned is that once you get a thought of quitting in your mind, it is damn hard to get it out.
A way to fight such thoughts is by believing that pain, fear, and fatigue are temporary. Living with yourself if you quit is permanent.
No one is mandating how a person thinks or feels. They can choose to be a winner or choose to be a loser.
LR55
Preaching to the Choir - JASmith - 06-25-2016
It is all too easy to succumb to the defeatist attitude, but our best shot at protecting our rights is to hang in there and keep fighting!
Write, email, and call (all three modes) your elected representatives at every level of government. This is especially important if they are anti-gun. They know you'll likely be donating to folks who are pro-gun so may be booted out of office by not paying-attention to your views. This is especally true if enough of of us contact them.
Then donate to pro-gun campaigners either directly or through the NRA.
Preaching to the Choir - rickOshay - 06-25-2016
"That's essentially the position that pro-2A people are in today. Outnumbered, waging a defensive battle, with no allies to help"
Right Stan. But many have been here before and come through with improbable victories.
Our opponents have taken their position in spit of, in the face of, all the data and evidence against them. We must find a way to influence them without data.
As I've quoted before - 'Someone cannot be reasoned out of something they were not reasoned into.'
JASmith is right to point out actions are needed - phone, write, and send money.
Maybe Zevon was right too - send Lawyers, Guns, and Money........
