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+--- Thread: Help with the right chamber (/showthread.php?tid=10847)
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Help with the right chamber - luke79 - 02-24-2016
Hey fellows I'm new here and ran into this forum a couple weeks ago there's a ton of great information here. I simply need some good advice on the right reamer to go with. I'm building a grendel obviously on a new CZ 527 7.62x39 action picking it up tomorrow at buds I've got a 29" Bartlien blank I'm gonna have it finished at 27" my main goal with this rifle is to simply punch paper above all and I'm gonna stretch it out as far as possible on the range. So I'm looking for the right chamber to get me the absolute most out of this round without going to something like a grendel max. I want to be able to use standard brass and I plan on loading 123s and hopefully 130gr JLKs I would like to get to 1000yrds with the 130s. So I'll need all the powder I can get in her I'm sure but I need help with the pressures so that's where the chambering should help. But you guys know much more than me on this round so any help would be greatly appreciated. I would love to know what chambering Speedy Gonzalez is using on the grendel he has on 6mmBR.com the one he claims to be getting 2700fps out of the 130gr JLKs not sure I will achieve that but it would be nice to get close. Thanks for any help.
Help with the right chamber - LRRPF52 - 02-24-2016
Welcome aboard. Depending on your allowable magazine-dictated COL, you might have more options.
From what I remember, there isn't much difference with a lot of these micro action rifles in mag length from an AR15. If you're shooting one ogive profile, you could custom VLD chamber with a tighter neck.
With that barrel length, you should not have a problem getting to 2700fps with the right powder under a 130gr. I would look at CFE and LVR.
If you look at Volume II of the 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks, Bwild97 got 2662fps from a 24" AR15 with 31.0gr of CFE under a 129gr SST, which is not even a max load for that bullet and powder. Hornady lists 31.7gr max for the 129gr class of cup and core pills.
Another thing you could do is get progressive rifling from Bartlein. Start with 1/16 and finish with 1/8.
The 130gr JLK has an OAL of 1.410", which is probably the max limit on projo length in the Grendel. I load the 129gr ABLR to the 2.260-2.270" region just fine, and it is 1.367". The 127gr Barnes LRX is longer than that at 1.399" and has been used to take Oryx from a JP AR15.
The 123gr Scenar and 123gr SMK are the 123gr pills I would look at first. I would talk with a smith who is competent enough to chamber for your needs, as it looks like you'll only be shooting secant ogive projectiles loaded to the limits of your magazine in that rifle.
Help with the right chamber - BluntForceTrauma - 02-24-2016
Luke, the "Speedy Gonzalez" Grendel on 6mmBR was built for Arne Brennan (who had early involvement in its development), and thus would probably have what is called a "CSS" chamber, named after Arne's former company, Competition Shooting Sports. Arne is still around online — shouldn't be too hard to contact him with a little digging — or you could give Dave Kiff a call at, oh, what's his company — PTG? — and see what he's got for long-throated 65Gs (for some reason, he was never a fan of the SAAMI compound throat, so he'd be happy to steer you to other options).
Heck, place a call to Bill Alexander, he's tried all the chambering permutations and could have some guidance for loading long in a bolt action.
Oh, and I don't know that Arne's chambering, per se, allowed him to get those velocities. He came from the competition side of things and just liked to load 'em HOT.
Help with the right chamber - luke79 - 02-24-2016
Thanks LRRPF52 alot of good info in your reply I also appreciate the vote of confidence on the velocity area. I felt like I should have a good chance for the performance I'm after. I am gonna give a couple reamer companies a call today and get there opinion on what they think would work out for me as well. I'm really excited about this build mainly because of the CZ action I've always loved and I've come to really respect the grendel as such a compact but one mean little outfit. Thanks both you and BluntForce Trama for your help and advice PTG is definitely one company I'll be calling today to get there option too.
Help with the right chamber - luke79 - 02-25-2016
Hey guys I called up 4D reamers and reamer rentals and I ended up just going with reamer rentals and the 6.5 grendel BPC reamer the owner explained it was designed for a bolt action. I explained to him what my intentions were for this rifle and he assured me that this chambering would satisfy me. I'm hoping and praying I didn't make a mistake. If anyone with any experience or expertise in this area could enlighten me some. My only concerns are I've purchased 100pcs of 6.5 grendel brass but from what I've read it should work fine and the other is should the Hornady 6.5 grendel dies I ordered work good for this chambering.
Help with the right chamber - rabiddawg - 02-25-2016
Luke I'm not trying to be rude here but for some reason I feel I must voice my opinion.
I you want more performance than the Grendel then why not step up to one that offers you what you want without having to modify it. In my opinion if it it is not a saami spec chamber it is not a Grendel.
Plus, I have seen 52 type it many times " all it does is shoot". "It" being the saami chamber.
If you do continue down this road do me a favor. If it doesn't shoot, or feed or your Grendel dies don't work; whatever it may be. Don't blame the 6.5 Grendel.
Help with the right chamber - LRRPF52 - 02-25-2016
rabiddawg Wrote:Luke I'm not trying to be rude here but for some reason I feel I must voice my opinion.
I you want more performance than the Grendel then why not step up to one that offers you what you want without having to modify it. In my opinion if it it is not a saami spec chamber it is not a Grendel.
Plus, I have seen 52 type it many times " all it does is shoot". "It" being the saami chamber.
If you do continue down this road do me a favor. If it doesn't shoot, or feed or your Grendel dies don't work; whatever it may be. Don't blame the 6.5 Grendel.
He's doing a bolt gun, not an AR15, and only wants to shoot VLD shaped projectiles.
Help with the right chamber - rabiddawg - 02-25-2016
LRRPF52 Wrote:He's doing a bolt gun, not an AR15, and only wants to shoot VLD shaped projectiles.
Ok. I guess I just don't get it. If I want more than a Grendel I would just go with something else.
Help with the right chamber - adamjp - 02-25-2016
I use the BPC reamer specification and it works quite well. The cases come out looking like a Grendel, I use Grendel dies (actually the bushing neck die is for a PPC) and it all just works. I appreciate the throat geometry does influence accuracy, but I'll put my money on Mr Palisimo understanding that. That is what the P in BPC stands for, Brindell Palisimo Cartridge. As it happens, I'm selling my 6.5 BPC reamer with the go/nogo gauges but the postage will be a killer for you.
As for 'get a bigger cartridge' as espoused by rabiddawg; well chuckles if you can fit a bigger cartridge into the mini actions we use here I'll take my hat off to you. The CZ527 is pretty much maxed out on the Grendel, as is the Zastava m85 and the Howa Mini. Only those who think a Rem Model 7 is a 'mini' action would countenance such a discussion.
Help with the right chamber - luke79 - 02-25-2016
Appreciate it adamjp I was just a bit worried on the dies mainly I love this little round and it's capabilities I'm only trying to capitalize on that my goal is to have a great shooting grendel that will do well at long range. And adamjp you are most certainly right on the CZ 527 action it's maxed out with the grendel. I just got done building a 6.5x55 swede and love it she's a beast it most definitely has extreme range in its blood. I have always loved my CZs period handgun or rifles very hard to beat. And the 527 is just a perfect little action and have always wanted to take it to its limit it's just a really good build for me. Most anyone that shoots out to 1000 pushes there round to its limits that's part of the fun I reckon heck even the short range guys are looking for a velocity edge along with accuracy. It certainly doesn't mean you need to go to a different caliber simply because you want all you can get SAFELY out of the one you have.
Help with the right chamber - luke79 - 02-25-2016
I would never blame a caliber if it's not working right lol that seems odd to me maybe not some. There's to many variables to just go blaming a round. That would be the last thing I blamed
Help with the right chamber - Von Gruff - 02-25-2016
adamjp Wrote:I use the BPC reamer specification and it works quite well. The cases come out looking like a Grendel, I use Grendel dies (actually the bushing neck die is for a PPC) and it all just works. I appreciate the throat geometry does influence accuracy, but I'll put my money on Mr Palisimo understanding that. That is what the P in BPC stands for, Brindell Palisimo Cartridge. As it happens, I'm selling my 6.5 BPC reamer with the go/nogo gauges but the postage will be a killer for you.
As for 'get a bigger cartridge' as espoused by rabiddawg; well chuckles if you can fit a bigger cartridge into the mini actions we use here I'll take my hat off to you. The CZ527 is pretty much maxed out on the Grendel, as is the Zastava m85 and the Howa Mini. Only those who think a Rem Model 7 is a 'mini' action would countenance such a discussion.
I respectfully disagree on the Zastava (Interarms Mk X mini Mauser) being maxed out as I run my Grendel-Max to an overall length of 2.405 with 4 down in my altered mag that has 2.470 internal length and it works very well. In fact I am away in the morning after deer and goats with mine.
I know the OP was looking only at the SAAMI Grendel but ----------------
Help with the right chamber - luke79 - 02-26-2016
Hey Von Gruff I'm interested to know how you altered the mag. And is the zastava mags similar to the CZ 527 mags
Help with the right chamber - kmon - 02-26-2016
The CZ being a true controlled round feed rifle it has to be cycled through the removable 5 round mag so you are limited to mag length rounds even if you throated it longer that would just provide more freebore. The Zastava uses a mag more like the 98 Mauser so it can be modified more for a little longer cartridges like Von Gruff stated. Or at least that is what I observed when comparing the 2 before I choose the CZ for my build.
Help with the right chamber - kmon - 02-26-2016
Luke the CZ uses detachable mags that are limited to 2.3 inches in the ones I have. Yes I have a CZ 527 in Grendel with a 22 inch Obermeyer barrel using the factory wood stock pillar and glass bedded by http://www.liveoakaccuracy.com/ We were planning on a SAAMI chamber for it but wound up going Grendel II chamber and loaded to mag length I have had real good luck with the Berger 130 hybrids for accuracy, they are not as depth sensitive as the VLDs. Now with a few hundred rounds through it the speed has picked up some and I am about to start working more on loads getting it dialed in for longer range with the Long Range Accubonds and Berger Hybrids. The ones I am running now are clocking right at 2500 and 5/8 inch groups at 200 yards which isn't bad IMO for a 7.5lb rifle including scope.
What I was wanting was a light weight hunting rifle with good accuracy and it sure has proven to be that.
Help with the right chamber - kmon - 02-26-2016
For scope mounting check out this rail for the 527, good solid product from what I have experienced. Have the 25MOA on the Grendel and the 0MOA one on a 223
http://www.diproductsinc.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1189982&CAT=3600
Help with the right chamber - luke79 - 02-26-2016
Thanks for the info Kmon I follow ya on the mag deal. I'm actually considering modifing my CZ mag a slight bit my plan is to mill out an aluminum block that is the same deminsion as the inside of the mag shape as well only I'll make it the length I want and put a slight taper on it so it'll start in. Then heat the very front of the CZ mag in hopes it'll stretch as I press the block mold thru it till it reaches the top. I'm only talking from 2.3 to 2.45 possibly. Hey its an idea this is a custom gun that's all mine it may screw up the mag but they make more. I thought it would be worth a try. I'm hoping to push the 130gr JLKs fast enough to reach 1000yrds supersonic. Do you guys know the velocity needed to keep a 123gr Amax supersonic just beyond 1000 and the SMK as well I imagine there both the same or very close.
Help with the right chamber - kmon - 02-26-2016
Your shooting elevation will have a lot to do with the max range a bullet will be supersonic at a given velocity. LRRPF52 shooting at 6000+ feet elevation in Utah will be supersonic quite a bit further than I will at 600 and 1400 ft on the ranges I shoot on, and ROE that shoots at about sea level it will be shorter yet. Try one of the online ballistic calculators like JBM or even the one on the Hornady web site in the advanced options, both are pretty good for retained velocity and trajectory. There are many others out there and apps for your phone (one from Litz is real nice).
For how altitude affects velocity me shooting the load I listed above for the 130gr hybrid at 2500fps it is supersonic at 1100 yards at 600ft elevation and at 6000ft it is still supersonic at 1350 yards.
Your ides on the Magazine might work, being it is single stack stretching it out in the middle might work. Now you have me thinking.
Help with the right chamber - kmon - 02-26-2016
For the 123 A-Max 2550fps will easily get you 1000+ yards supersonic at sea level.
Help with the right chamber - SDguy - 02-27-2016
rabiddawg Wrote:Ok. I guess I just don't get it. If I want more than a Grendel I would just go with something else.
Only thing I can emagin that would be more and still fit the 527 action would be the Grendel max.
Enlighten me please. What ya thinking would do better with the 6ppc bolt face & fit a mini action other than a Grendel or a Grendel slightly modified? 6.5 Ackly ppc Max?
