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+--- Thread: Magazine size (/showthread.php?tid=1062)
Magazine size - vanguard138 - 09-16-2011
other than the 5 round magazines, what capacity mag has been the most reliable are you guys?
Magazine size - Mutt - 09-16-2011
Well, all I've ever had were the C-prodcuts 25 round mags. Not the best mags in the world, but sometimes they work fine.
Magazine size - vanguard138 - 09-16-2011
sometimes they work fine.....would hate to have my life depend on sometimes.
I have half dozen c products 15 round magazines that I am going to have to figure out how to fix the lips. they work great if I put pressure on the bottom toward the barrel.
Magazine size - bwaites - 09-16-2011
The 5, 10, and 26 round mags have been the most consistent.
I have never had to do anything to any of those, though some members have had to work on them a bit.
The 14/15 rounders have been a problem, because of the bend necessary for them to work, and even C Products admitted the same on the ARF.com forum in the past. Because of those issues, AA never sold that version.
Magazine size - vanguard138 - 09-16-2011
wish I would've known that before I bought them. live and learn.
Magazine size - Bill Alexander - 09-16-2011
We never did sell the 14/15 it was always set up wrong and had too many problems.
The best magazines are the 24/25 round magazines. These run well in rifles with extended ramps (everything we make except the GSR series) but there is an ongoing tendancy for people to overadjust the feed lips. Bending feed lips up too far effectively releases control of the round too early and the bullet is now not controlled between the chamber and the bolt face. Correct ramping together with radius edges on the feed ramps of the barrel extension are key to allowing the magazines to function as intended.
Magazine size - StoneTower - 09-16-2011
Be aware that the 5 and the 10 round mags use the exact same body. I ordered two2 5 rounders and 2 10 rounders thinking that if I went to a state that has a mag size limited for hunting I would be covered. When I received the mags they had the same body but the 5 round mags weigh more because they have more spring coils in the bottom to make the follower stop at 5 rounds. I ordered 2 more 10 round springs as I would rather have a lighter magazine to use at the range and for hunting when there is no restriction. California does not limit magazine capacity for hunting if you can legally own the magazine and it can be legally be inserted in the particular rife you are using but that is another story about California.
Magazine size - noone - 09-19-2011
All my magazines work just fine...even the C-products ones. The most I have had to do was to lightly stone the inside of the feed lips of the magazine to remove the very slight burr. I don't accept magazines that work "most of the time" any more than I accept brakes on my vehicle that work "most of the time". Same idea for parachutes, fire extinguishers, life jackets, seat belts and other devices.
Magazines are simple devices once the engineering, angles, internal and external dimensions are all worked out. There is no reason why a properly designed and maintained magazine shouldn't work 100% of the time (if it is fed good ammo).
Magazines with bent feed lips, dents in the side, feed lips that have been "re-adjusted", dirty magazines, magazines with weak springs, broken welds, and so on are fairly common problems. Rifle and pistol magazines are no different than brakes on an auto. Occasionally, they wear out, or something happens to them. That is when you repair, or replace them.
Magazine size - vanguard138 - 09-19-2011
I have two AT Stoner 10 round mags I tried yesterday that did not work. I will have to try a couple of Bills and see how they work.
Magazine size - LRRPF52 - 09-19-2011
I have learned to avoid the "Stoner" brand of about anything. I like Midway, but it seems that they pick up products from other companies and then slap the Stoner name on them. I ordered one of their "Nickel Boron Bolt Carrier Groups" earlier in the year, and it was a piece of crap. I don't believe the coating was Nickel Boron, since it wore off when the gunsmith did a few initial test loads before I even saw it. I've used plenty of real Nickel Boron BCG's from FailZero and Spike's, and they look totally different, and don't wear at all after over a year of high volume in 5.56 guns. If you look at the customer reviews on most of the Stoner products, they are dismal.
Magazine size - Mutt - 09-19-2011
noone Wrote:All my magazines work just fine...even the C-products ones. The most I have had to do was to lightly stone the inside of the feed lips of the magazine to remove the very slight burr. I don't accept magazines that work "most of the time" any more than I accept brakes on my vehicle that work "most of the time". Same idea for parachutes, fire extinguishers, life jackets, seat belts and other devices.
Magazines are simple devices once the engineering, angles, internal and external dimensions are all worked out. There is no reason why a properly designed and maintained magazine shouldn't work 100% of the time (if it is fed good ammo).
Magazines with bent feed lips, dents in the side, feed lips that have been "re-adjusted", dirty magazines, magazines with weak springs, broken welds, and so on are fairly common problems. Rifle and pistol magazines are no different than brakes on an auto. Occasionally, they wear out, or something happens to them. That is when you repair, or replace them.
I don't accept magazines that work "most of the time" either. Problem is, C-products made a horrible product. The first five I bought worked horribly. They were sent back for 5 new mags. They worked OK but were still not 100 percent. Now, C-products is out of business. So, the only option I have is the use what I have or throw them away and have none. The new magazines out there for the Grendel aren't any different than the c-products mags already out there. My Grendel is an exceptional rifle. But, the magazines aren't reliable enough to use it for a SHTF rifle. It's not the one I'd grab if my life depended on it. I'd grab my 5.56 first because I know the magazines work perfect.
There are several reasons why a magazine wouldn't work properly. First is ..... Shitty design. You said that there is no reason why a properly designed magazine shouldn't work properly. Well, C-products didn't design them properly and they don't work properly. If they did, maybe they wouldn't be out of business. "If it's fed good ammo" has absolutely nothing to do with whether a magazine will feed properly or not. The wolf, cycles just the same as my reloads, hornady and AA loads.
I served 20 years in the military. If a magazine has an issue, you stomp it, and leave it on the ground or throw it in the garbage. Magazines are meant to be expendible. But, you can't find a Grendel mag out there that doesn't have issues. They are supposed to work right when they are new in the plastic. Even the cheapest GI issue magazines work better than anything on the market right now for grendels. The problem is, all the magazines that have been sold for Grendels have been garbage. They work "Some times" at best. If I have to adjust feed lips, replace week springs or have broken welds etc on the magaznines I've bought from c-products, they came that way, then I've had to fix them. I don't usually expect to have to redesign a "new in the plastic" product before it works properly. To me that is unacceptable. So, I can only say that they work some times. The rest of the time, I have to modify, adjust, rebuild, or replace parts to get them to work "all the time". But, those are magazines that have been worked on by me. I take credit for them working properly and don't give the credit to the manufacturer. I shouldn't have to remanufacturer them for them to work. They should work new out of the package.
So my initial statement stands. Sometimes they work fine. But, most of the time they don't. That's just the way it is. If you throw away all the Grendel mags that don't work 100 percent, you wouldn't have any magazines and would own a single shot rifle.
So, if you don't like magazines that don't work 100 percent all the time, don't lectered on the matter. That's the way they come.
Magazine size - bwaites - 09-19-2011
EVERY magazine I have has worked 100% from the bag, but I do know others have had issues. Mine have now run in four different Grendels, always without a hiccup. In fact, they have even run in a Les Baer, and a Model 1 sales upper.
I'm not sure its design as much as execution, and I do believe that the new owners of CProducts have improved the QC significantly.
We certainly NEED another manufacturer, and I know it is a priority issue. I do know that at least one company did developmental work, then backed off as the economy soured.
Magazine size - txgunslinger - 09-20-2011
I guess I have just had good luck or something. My Grendel is built around an AR Stoner barrel and bolt from Midway and shoots absolutely fantastic, along with that I use the Stoner Magazine and never once had a problem, On this forum I see nothing good about Stoner products. BTW my brother in law uses 6.8 mags in his Grendel (I dont know what brand) but he has yet to have a problem, has anyone ever heard of this?
Magazine size - LRRPF52 - 09-21-2011
There were guys in the old forum using 6.8 PRI mags for extended COAL in the Grendel. I'm not sure if they made any mods to them or not.
I've heard people say good things about the AR-Stoner barrels, but still have not been able to determine if they are made in the US or abroad. The AR-Stoner "Nickel Boron" bolt carrier group was an absolute failure. I just checked that product again, and Midway has actually pulled my review, as well as the review from another customer who had the exact same experience...i.e. flaking of the plating, whatever it is. It is nothing like real Nickel Boron as I have on the FailZero BCG's, and Spike's Tactical BCG's, or the receivers I have seen plated in Nickel Boron. I'm actually surprised to see that Midway has pulled the bad reviews on that product. It is a no-star rating in my book.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=593411
Magazine size - vanguard138 - 09-22-2011
I have an AR Stoner 18" SS barrel in my build, shoots well. Maybe where I went wrong was with the Rock River matched upper/lower. Five round mags work perfect, whether C-Products or Stoner. Yet the 10 round do not. I have some AA large capacity coming to try.
Then again, maybe I just need to get a Beuwolf and another Grendel from AA
Magazine size - LRRPF52 - 09-22-2011
Someone stated here that the AR-stoner barrels are ER-Shaw, so those are production barrels, button-rifled. Some will shoot great, others so-so.
Magazine size - LRRPF52 - 09-22-2011
Back to magazines. I would keep in mind that the original Armalite AR15 of 1958 had a 25rd, steel body, straight magazine. When the Army told them that military rifles can't have more than a 20rd, a 20rd mag was made. The first 20rd mags were the "waffle" mags, then Aluminum, which became the production mag for the M16. SOG guys started having a company make a special steel-bodied 30rd mag for them, with a continuous curve, and was a hot item at that time. Then the first Colt 30rd mags with the straight body, then curve outside the mag well came along, and were standardized in the early 70's. They had an initial follower design, then went to an improved one, then another improved one. The AR mag for the 5.56 guns is still evolving 53 years later. The GI mags actually work pretty well, and have done so for some time.
We are very early in Grendel mag development, and doing pretty well. It's just the nature of the beast. All my CProducts mags have functioned properly so far, even with soft points and different bullet weights. Bullet weight can totally throw things out of kilter with a box magazine and feed ramps. Figure M16's and M4's have basically 2 bullet weights, whereas the Grendel has uhhhhhh...maybe at least 4 major weights spanning 95gr-123gr, whereas the 5.56 has 55gr and 62gr. You also have to figure-in all the different uppers and lowers civilians have, with tolerance stack playing into the equation, often not in your favor. If you have an upper on the maximum edge of spec, a lower on the maximum edge of spec, your mag catch could end up being out of sync with your mag placement with regards to the feedramps and boreline. Is it the mag that's the issue every time? You have to figure it out with each build, unless you bought a complete weapon from a maker who will back it up of course.