stanc Wrote:The US doesn't do large wars anymore.

stanc Wrote:Since reason #1 has been answered, does that mean you'll stop objecting to EPR bullets?

stanc Wrote:I realize that you want the Army to go back to using lead-core bullets so that a 123gr bullet for 6.5 Grendel will be feasible

BluntForceTrauma Wrote:Sometimes large wars do us.

Quote:I object only to politically correct decision drivers, like those mandating women in front-line combat.

Quote:Nice try.

stanc Wrote:Don't know what you mean. The subject of a 123gr EPR probably not being a feasible 6.5 Grendel load is what prompted your "editorializing" on the matter.

JASmith Wrote:Facts not in evidence
.
Or, are we resorting to. mind reading and other magic?

BluntForceTrauma Wrote:Devil's Advocate question: Does your analysis also argue against the necessity of 7.62 NATO in a medium machine gun? Side-by-side, what does a 762N MMG in a mount do in a beaten zone at 800m, for example, that a theoretical 65G LMG in the same mount at the same range with a 123gr VLD FMJ doesn't do? (Here I am assuming very similar external ballistics to M80.)

stanc Wrote:1. Beaten zone is not the only performance criteria for machine guns.
2. A VLD shape may not be a viable configuration for a military bullet.
3. The lead-core FMJ is being superseded by the lead-free EPR design.

An EPR projectile for 6.5 Grendel seems likely to be significantly lighter than 123 grains, which will affect trajectory, wind drift, effective range, beaten zone, and terminal effects to an unknown degree. (The 125gr EPR bullet developed for 6.5 CT ammo has a very long base, which would reduce powder capacity if loaded into the 6.5 Grendel case, adversely affecting muzzle velocity.)

BluntForceTrauma Wrote:Just a side note to editorialize a bit: In a real shooting war with a real enemy — Iran, North Korea, China (God forbid) — with the grown-ups in charge for once, the ban on lead ammunition will take a back seat to actually devoting resources to winning the damn war, rather than appeasing politically-correct sensibilities.

Taking WWII as an example, these people have no idea what is involved in total war. With copper how many times the price of lead, protecting landfills will probably be low on the list of priorities. But if we'd rather "save the whales" than save the country, well, I guess that's a choice some people make. . . .

JASmith Wrote:The baiting is becoming tedious.

Quote:Based on briefings conducted at the NDIA Armaments Conference by PEO Soldier’s PM Weapons team, along with discussions with industry, we have an update on Army plans to field a new 7.62 NATO capability within the next 24 months.

First off, although a contract has been awarded for H&K’s Compact Semi Automatic Sniper System, the weapon remains unfunded for FY17.

However, the Army is also committed to concurrently fielding an SDMR based on the same platform as the CSASS.

While there has been talk of adding up to two SDMRs per Squad, internal Army discussions continue about expanding the basis of issue of a 7.62 rifle, now referred to as the Interim Service Combat Rifle to all BCT members. However, there is still no formal requirement for the ISCR, and acquisition officials are leaning forward on the foxhole in anticipation, prepared to make this happen as quickly as possible.

Quote:Army researchers are testing half a dozen ammunition variants in “intermediate calibers,” which falls between the current 7.62 mm and 5.56 mm rounds, to create a new light machine gun and inform the next-generation individual assault rifle/round combo.

The weapon designs being tested will be “unconventional,” officials said, and likely not one that is currently commercially available.

Quote:Army researchers are testing half a dozen ammunition variants in “intermediate calibers,” which falls between the current 7.62 mm and 5.56 mm rounds, to create a new light machine gun and inform the next-generation individual assault rifle/round combo.

The weapon designs being tested will be “unconventional,” officials said, and likely not one that is currently commercially available..

Essayons Wrote:Sounds like the Lightweight Small Arms Technology (LSAT) LMG and Carbine, maybe?

LRRPF52 Wrote:This is an excellent weapons mix, something a few of you will recall being discussed many years ago here, where 7.62 NATO is slowly displaced and replaced by 6.5mm...

stanc Wrote:Alas, I do not recall any thread with a discussion of 7.62 NATO being slowly displaced and replaced by a 6.5mm round like .260 Remington or 6.5 Creedmoor.

JASmith Wrote:I participated in those discussions and, yes, gradually came to understand that replacing the 5.56 with the Grendel would ultimately not work well, but that a 6.5 caliber medium machine gun could work.