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+--- Thread: Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 (/showthread.php?tid=6870)
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - explorecaves - 01-04-2014
NugginFutz Wrote:Yes, but where's the fun in that, when you can turn bar stock into scrap? (No offense, CC. You said you're learning as you go, and I assume that "scrap" is one of the stages of learning.).
so when he runs out of bar stock making scrap he at least has the link to go buy it?
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - customcutter - 01-04-2014
NF, no offense taken. I've been playing with one for 5-10 years. I've learned how to turn threads. Actually making my own swage dies for .224, that little project is teaching me a lot. You'd be suprised how easy it is to mess up turning a 1" OD 5" long. Easy to make tapers, or rough finishes because of dull tools or wrong tool, speed, etc. That's why I say I'm not a machinist.
EC, I'm just to cheap to pay $25-30 for the tool, I'd rather buy a $7,000 lathe and make it myself. (Of course I bought it used for considerably less.). Also, it's not scrap until you can't try to make something else with it.
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - explorecaves - 01-05-2014
customcutter Wrote:NF, no offense taken. I've been playing with one for 5-10 years. I've learned how to turn threads. Actually making my own swage dies for .224, that little project is teaching me a lot. You'd be suprised how easy it is to mess up turning a 1" OD 5" long. Easy to make tapers, or rough finishes because of dull tools or wrong tool, speed, etc. That's why I say I'm not a machinist.
EC, I'm just to cheap to pay $25-30 for the tool, I'd rather buy a $7,000 lathe and make it myself. (Of course I bought it used for considerably less.). Also, it's not scrap until you can't try to make something else with it.
![[Image: chuck-norris-thumbs-up.jpg]](http://ignitecampus.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/chuck-norris-thumbs-up.jpg)
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - customcutter - 01-06-2014
I was looking for a shaft to turn down, and found one. It was a shaft from one of the deck bearing assemblies on my commercial mowers. It was .9965 on both ends with a .125 shoulder for total diameter of 1.25 and 5" from the shoulder to the end. Deburred it and slid it in. Rotated the shaft while rotating the upper with a strong light in the background. Everything is square on my CMT upper, so I'm good to go.:-)
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - 500 - 01-11-2014
![[Image: lappedupper001_zps893327b3.jpg]](http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag311/eljaybo/lappedupper001_zps893327b3.jpg)
Thanks for the tip! This was after about 10 seconds of lapping. Sorry my camera kinda stinks but you can see a definite high spot.
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - keystone183 - 01-23-2014
Another quick build question. Planning on cerakoting the entire rifle. Is it better to have that done first, and then assemble, or assemble, true/modify everything, and then assemble? I'm thinking i would assemble everything and put a few rounds down range to make sure it is running/shooting like i want, and then disassemble and have it sprayed. This make sense? Does it make a difference?
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - montana - 01-23-2014
keystone183 Wrote:Another quick build question. Planning on cerakoting the entire rifle. Is it better to have that done first, and then assemble, or assemble, true/modify everything, and then assemble? I'm thinking i would assemble everything and put a few rounds down range to make sure it is running/shooting like i want, and then disassemble and have it sprayed. This make sense? Does it make a difference?
The Cerakote applicator will need your rifle completely dissembled before he applies cerakote. He will then soak your parts and completely De-grease it. It would be a good idea to make sure your uppers fit , your gas port works with your gas block, and all of your parts that will be cerakoted function before you have them coated. After you have it cerakoted make sure everything still functions and there wasn't any heavy coated areas like the mag well, which can prevent easy insertion and removal of mags.
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - LRRPF52 - 01-27-2014
Here is a great link discussing the difference between machined vs. forged, and 7075 vs. 6061 aluminum:
http://www.gunsumerreports.com/review_firearms_materials_and_processes_001.php
Short story is that 7075 T6 is the way to go for AR15 receivers.
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - Lead Chucker - 01-27-2014
montana Wrote:The Cerakote applicator will need your rifle completely dissembled before he applies cerakote. He will then soak your parts and completely De-grease it. It would be a good idea to make sure your uppers fit , your gas port works with your gas block, and all of your parts that will be cerakoted function before you have them coated. After you have it cerakoted make sure everything still functions and there wasn't any heavy coated areas like the mag well, which can prevent easy insertion and removal of mags.
Im also interested in hearing the answer to this. Im wanting to get into Duracoat and Cerakote. Im guessing the best thing to do is brake it all down, clean, blast if needed, clean agian. Then either coat and assemble, or assemble and coat for the pattern look you want? Im thinking assemble then coat to get the matching parts look like LRRP did. That thing looks great!
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - LRRPF52 - 01-27-2014
I do an aggressive de-grease on the stripped parts, including out-gassing if necessary. Some smiths use acid baths, which is quick, effective, but requires a shop set up for heated acid tanks.
Duracoat is basically garage floor paint with a hardener, and doesn't hold up compared to Cerakote, so I don't use it.
If I'm doing a pattern, I do a base color on all the stripped parts, then bake them individually to get coverage of all the nooks and crannies. Then I assemble them and start with the pattern. That 2nd layer needs time to air cure somewhat so that when slightly handled, it won't smudge. You don't want to bake an upper and lower together with Cerakote across the seams, as it will act like cement.
![[Image: 2013-04-23164615_zpsa89e9354.jpg]](http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/2013-04-23164615_zpsa89e9354.jpg)
![[Image: 2013-04-23234433_zps04db4557.jpg]](http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/2013-04-23234433_zps04db4557.jpg)
![[Image: 2013-04-24170508_zps230d9c4f.jpg]](http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/2013-04-24170508_zps230d9c4f.jpg)
![[Image: b83h1_zps343b3668.jpg]](http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j422/LRRPF52/b83h1_zps343b3668.jpg)
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - Lead Chucker - 01-27-2014
So after you coat it together you let it air dry then disassemble & bake? Im guessing your not baking the scope right? Do you blast your parts or just degrease?
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - Klem - 01-27-2014
I agree with '52'. Duracoat and Ceracoat are two very different animals. I use a fair bit of Duracoat and am constantly having to touch-up the corners where it wears off. Duracoat is a two-pack 12:1 paint with hardener. Ceracoat is a baked enamel for a tougher finish.
With Duracoat as long as you have a non-shiny anodized base there is no immediate issue when it starts to wear off, and it will. The other point is you have to have a clean surface to start with and let it set properly before it touches any other surface like a gun bag. 24hours minimum and longer during Winter.
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - cory - 01-27-2014
While we're on the subject... Screw it, I'll just start a new thread.
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?7907-Covering-up-nicks-and-scratches.&p=84883#post84883
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - LRRPF52 - 01-28-2014
Lead Chucker Wrote:So after you coat it together you let it air dry then disassemble & bake? Im guessing your not baking the scope right? Do you blast your parts or just degrease?
I do the parts individually with the base coat, to include inside the lower receiver in every nook I can find, inside the magwell, and sometimes inside the upper receiver.
I have used blast tanks, sanding, and no roughing of the surface at all on my personal guns to see the difference. I even coated melonited barrels that have a very smooth, hard surface, and couldn't believe that it behaves like a sand-blasted job. My stainless Grendel barrel was the first one I tried without abrasing the surface, and it has not had a single scratch or ding even mark the surface.
I still will abrade/roughen the surface if I am doing it for a friend, since NIC calls for it, and I understand the concept of having a rough surface for better purchase and adhesion of the compound ceramic-epoxy/enamel secret sauce. It's pretty standard surface coating 101 to clean and sand a surface for a uniform and stronger coat.
Yes, you can bake quality scopes at lower temps, and the one in the pics is baked. I contacted Vortex about this when I heard you could do it, and they confirmed it with me, stating the temp limits of 200F. Since I am at higher altitude, I use a bit lower temp than that of 180F, being that lower atmospheric pressure affects gas purged tubes in high heat differently. I even baked my Vortex spotting scope, and my 1-4x GRSC, no issues after several years of pretty hard use.
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - Lead Chucker - 01-28-2014
Thanks for the info LRRP52! I was wanting to Cerakote but didn't want the hassel of blasting since I dont have a blaster at home, thats why I was going to duracoat. But now I may try the Cerakote. Baking isnt a problem so I will get what I need and give it a shot. What size needle are you using in your airbrush? I know most people are using HVLP guns because the Cerakote is thicker than paint and Duracoat. Thanks for your help and info!
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - LRRPF52 - 01-29-2014
If you aren't going to blast, I find that new anodized and parkerized surfaces already have excellent surface adhesion properties to them, and this is consistent with other Cerakoters' experiences as well.
If you want a part to have a more abraded surface, you can use fine grit sand paper, then clean and acetone bathe. One thing is for sure, you have to clean your airbrush immediately after use, as the Cerakote will clog it badly.
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - Lead Chucker - 01-29-2014
Cool, thanks for all the info! Im was on their site today. Think I may try their 6 color starter kit with the HVLP gun
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - Kikn - 01-31-2014
I was doing some extra reading on this and ran across this at midway...
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/810457/ar-stoner-upper-receiver-lapping-tool-ar-15?cm_vc=subv1821295
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/821295/wheeler-engineering-delta-series-upper-receiver-lapping-tool-ar-15?cm_vc=subv1810457
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - NugginFutz - 01-31-2014
Kikn Wrote:I was doing some extra reading on this and ran across this at midway...
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/810457/ar-stoner-upper-receiver-lapping-tool-ar-15?cm_vc=subv1821295
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/821295/wheeler-engineering-delta-series-upper-receiver-lapping-tool-ar-15?cm_vc=subv1810457
Two days ago, both were on back order. The Wheeler version is now available. Get 'em while their hot...
Longevity, Accuracy Tips for the AR15 - stanprophet - 03-11-2014
After much reading here before a couple of builds I decided to buy the lapping tool. My dad kind of gave me one of those looks, like I was smoking something. And much debate with someone that is as stubborn as I am, I asked him what will it hurt? Well he could not really answer that, so he actually ordered the tool before I could. When we started to put together the 300 blk rifles I was the first one to lap the receiver. You should have seen his face when it started to look like the receiver in LRRP's first picture.
Now I cannot say for sure what it did for the accuracy of this rifle, I can say it shoots much better than I thought it would. With a $135 SS barrel, with nice finish quality, and a nice looking bore. I will get a chance to do some testing but both his rifle, and the rifle I built for the wife is showing MOA accuracy. So my carbine is a 16" Wilson SS NM 1-8 chambered in 223 wylde. This rifle is already MOA or better with my 55gr FMJ loads, and put down some amazing shots at 500yds with 77gr SMK's. I tore this thing down to refinish it, and it will be lapped with the tool. The price of the tool kind of makes it a no brainier when building uppers.
LRRPF52:
Thanks for this post, and the knowledge you share with everyone here!