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+--- Thread: What you guys think about J&T? (/showthread.php?tid=455)
What you guys think about J&T? - longdayjake - 06-05-2011
My only Grendel is a 20" J&T. So far it hasn't won any matches but it has killed several varmints and an Elk. I sure ain't complaining. However, I am looking at getting a barrel sometime soon and starting a new build.
What you guys think about J&T? - Turtlebuck - 06-15-2011
I recently bought a J&T upper 6.5 Grendel 20". I only managed to find Hornady 123 g amax in the area. The ammo gets jammed in the barrel. The bolt won't close completely. I have to pull the charging handle forcefully to extract the bullet. I've contacted j&t and they advised me to use Wolf ammunition, because Hornady hasn't been producing the correct specs for the Grendel. I also contacted Hornady, who advised me their ammunition was not the problem and to maybe run a reamer through the barrel.
I need advise what to do, buy different ammo and pray it works and never use Hornady or take it to a gunsmith and have it reamed?
Or any other advise?
What you guys think about J&T? - VASCAR2 - 06-15-2011
It doesn't sound like you reload and you might try some different ammo to see if the rifle functions. I have a 16" J&T and it shoots the 123 grain AMAX without any problem. I have reloaded ammo which exhibited the same problems you described. I traced this to the bullets being seating to long and the bullet contacting the rifling. Seeing how the 123 grain AMAX was designed to work in the 6.5 Grendel and has an optimum taper/ogive of the bullet I'd say the ammo is out of spec or your chamber is out of spec. Trying different lots of 123 AMAX or different factory ammo may give you an indication where the problem lies. Its possible the rifle is still very tight and just needs a few rounds to break in. It's not unknown to have magazine problems cause feeding issues with the 6.5 Grendel. If I bought different factory 6.5 Grendel ammo and still had functioning issues I would immediately be on the phone to J&T.
What you guys think about J&T? - Turtlebuck - 06-15-2011
Thanks for the advise. Guess I'll try another company's ammo. Hopefully it'll go smoothly from there. I'll keep an update once I figure everything out, in case anyone else is in my situation.
Thanks again.
What you guys think about J&T? - pinzgauer - 06-16-2011
Turtlebuck Wrote:I need advise what to do, buy different ammo and pray it works and never use Hornady or take it to a gunsmith and have it reamed?
The Hornady factory ammo has been fine in my J&T grendel as well as AA. Mine was the original lot's of Hornady which apparently had problems with some tighter (non-std) grendel chambers.
Is it the bullet or the case itself which is too long? When you get the cartridge out, do you see rifling marks in the bullet?
The input to try some wolf is good. If the wolf works and the Hornady does not then it might just be a short chamber and you have early hornady. Later hornady should work.
If the wolf also does not work then something is wrong. Either the wrong or out of spec bolt, extractor, or ejector, or the chamber was not throated or finished properly & J&T should take care of you.
What you guys think about J&T? - Turtlebuck - 06-16-2011
pinzgauer Wrote:Is it the bullet or the case itself which is too long? When you get the cartridge out, do you see rifling marks in the bullet?
There are rifling markings, they appear on the cartridge and the bullet. The pic shows normal on left and after I extract it on right.
![[Image: 7d3e05f7.jpg]](http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae9/marecopil/7d3e05f7.jpg)
![[Image: 3539df9d.jpg]](http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae9/marecopil/3539df9d.jpg)
When I contacted Hornady I gave them the Lot #, which turned out to be the newer batch of Grendels.
If the wolf work, will I get the same results as Hornady? I don't shoot competitively, I just hunt. Mostly varmints. So I don't need .5" groups. Just enough to to make a coyote blanket.
What you guys think about J&T? - robsf49ers - 06-17-2011
Turtlebuck Wrote:I recently bought a J&T upper 6.5 Grendel 20". I only managed to find Hornady 123 g amax in the area. The ammo gets jammed in the barrel. The bolt won't close completely. I have to pull the charging handle forcefully to extract the bullet. I've contacted j&t and they advised me to use Wolf ammunition, because Hornady hasn't been producing the correct specs for the Grendel. I also contacted Hornady, who advised me their ammunition was not the problem and to maybe run a reamer through the barrel.
I need advise what to do, buy different ammo and pray it works and never use Hornady or take it to a gunsmith and have it reamed?
Or any other advise?
TB I bought a satern 20" barrel for some $$$ it did the same thing as you described. It would not chamber a round without force and once it did it was pain in ass to get out. I also have an AA upper. I exchanged bolts and tried to chamber and extract. It did so flawlessly. I did not try to shoot any of these rounds as I have been told not to fire bolts from another upper. I sent the bolt back to satern they sent me a new one and it works great no problems since. I know Satern makes great barrels but do not make bolts. They told me they have had problems with a batch of bolts. Hope this helps.If you know somebody with a grendel maybe they would let you try it to see if it chambers and extracts, But do not shoot. I really don't thinks it's the ammo. If you don't know somebody with a Grendel I would let you try my AA bolt. Let me know . I have some Grendels. So it would not be an inconvenience to me.
What you guys think about J&T? - robsf49ers - 06-17-2011
Turtlebuck Wrote:There are rifling markings, they appear on the cartridge and the bullet. The pic shows normal on left and after I extract it on right.
When I contacted Hornady I gave them the Lot #, which turned out to be the newer batch of Grendels.
If the wolf work, will I get the same results as Hornady? I don't shoot competitively, I just hunt. Mostly varmints. So I don't need .5" groups. Just enough to to make a coyote blanket.
TB I had the same "rifle marks " Mr Satern told me they were from the extension. They sure looked like rifle marks to me. I emailed him pictures of these. He's the expert and I took his word for it. He sent me a bolt and it works great. If I were good at pics I would post them. That is my next project learn to post pictures on this forum. Good luck. I know the pain!
What you guys think about J&T? - Turtlebuck - 06-17-2011
Rob, That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience. I hope I have the same problem as you described. That would be an easy fix just to get a replacement from j&t.
I don't know anyone in my area that owns a Grendel, otherwise I would try swapping bolts.
If anyone would like... I have an extra new box of Grendels Hornady 123 amax 20 rds never chambered, Id like to trade for 20 rds of wolf 123 g??? Let me know.
What you guys think about J&T? - Bill Alexander - 06-18-2011
That looks a bit tight, I suspect that you are at or below minimum chamber.
It is the nemasis of the caliber that everyone strives for best accuracy which means the tightest chambers, the Hornady ammo is not at fault it is just a touch larger which when in concert with an absolute minimum chamber may cause a snag.
Strange thing about the Grendel is that is does not demand a minimum chamber for accuracy and a happy nominal will shoot every bit as well.
Please call the office and ask for me in respect to this if it continues to be a problem. I will try and get it sorted out. J&T are an extremely conciencious company.
What you guys think about J&T? - Turtlebuck - 07-26-2011
Well, I finally got some Wolf 123 g rounds. They fit kind of snug in the chamber, but the bolt does completely close.
Im not a pro, but i think i did well. The groups at 100 yards were about 2" (5 rounds). But at 200 they were much larger and I'm thinking it might be due to the wolf ammo.
Should I get the barrel reamed a little by a gunsmith? So i can shoot Hornadys.
I would like to outshoot my Remington 700 bench rest friend, who thinks no gun is better than his. Or I'll sell it and buy another gun.
What you guys think about J&T? - Hoot - 07-26-2011
Turtlebuck Wrote:Well, I finally got some Wolf 123 g rounds. They fit kind of snug in the chamber, but the bolt does completely close.
Im not a pro, but i think i did well. The groups at 100 yards were about 2" (5 rounds). But at 200 they were much larger and I'm thinking it might be due to the wolf ammo.
Should I get the barrel reamed a little by a gunsmith? So i can shoot Hornadys.
I would like to outshoot my Remington 700 bench rest friend, who thinks no gun is better than his. Or I'll sell it and buy another gun.
It is pretty though.
Every Grendel rifle has a load (or more) that will allow it to shoot phenomenal groups. For yours, Wolf 123g are not it. Trying different ammunition to find that load is what the fun is all about. Making your own ammunition gives you an infinite number of possibilities and even more fun. Don't sell the gun. Find the ammunition it likes, (either loaded or roll your own) and show your friend how it's done.
Hoot
What you guys think about J&T? - bwaites - 07-26-2011
I have yet to see the Grendel that shoots good groups with the Wolf 123. It's a hunting round, essentially. 2 MOA is good for that.
What you guys think about J&T? - pinzgauer - 07-27-2011
Turtlebuck Wrote:Well, I finally got some Wolf 123 g rounds. They fit kind of snug in the chamber, but the bolt does completely close.
My read is that if the wolf is snug and Hornady does not close that your chamber or headspace is tight. If it's tight cold, it will malf hot, so it needs to be addressed. The wolf I have seen has been fairly undersized, as is the eastern European tradition. (for reliability)
I'm aware of two other JT grendels that have no problem with either, so I'd discuss with JT. They are normally pretty good about taking care of issues.
What you guys think about J&T? - Turtlebuck - 07-27-2011
pinzgauer Wrote:I'm aware of two other JT grendels that have no problem with either, so I'd discuss with JT. They are normally pretty good about taking care of issues.
You're right, It would be much easier to contact j&t. So I'll give em a call and see what can be done, hopefully it should be as easy as swapping barrels.
I'll keep an update.
What you guys think about J&T? - Turtlebuck - 11-03-2011
Ive been busy with school but I did say I'll keep an update. Well I sent the barrel in and they sent back the same barrel but everything works flawlessly. Here's a short video I made mainly trying out the camera.
[video=youtube;dBAL3qiJnr4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBAL3qiJnr4[/video]
What you guys think about J&T? - smokey27 - 11-03-2011
I have had nothing but good experiences with JT. Excellent customer service. On some builds where i went with a match barrel in 223, i thought about it and wish I had just kept the JT hbar barrel. they make some great for the price kits in 556 and 223.
Its nice to hear they fixed the problem for you and nice video!
What you guys think about J&T? - texasgrunt - 12-02-2011
LRRPF52 Wrote:Gents,
If you really want to save a bunch of money on building an AR, but still want high quality parts, there are ways to do it. You have to decide if you want a billet or standard upper receiver first. There is sound thinking behind using a beefier upper, although many standard uppers with great barrels have been able to shoot great. You can get a DPMS low-pro upper from Midway for $81 right now if you go the beefier upper route, but you might want to true it so the barrel extension flange is perfectly square to the action race ways if needed. This is a machinist task if you pursue it.
LRRPF52
Does anyone know which of the billet upper manufacturers actually do this? I am not a machinist and don't know anyone that could do this for me.
Grunt
What you guys think about J&T? - pinzgauer - 12-02-2011
texasgrunt Wrote:Does anyone know which of the billet upper manufacturers actually do this?
The billet receivers I've used (Sundevil) are more dimensionally accurate than forgings. So I would expect the need to do this as a separate step to be redundant. And very difficult for a manual machinist step (lathe/mill) to beat the CNC tolerances.
Most of the people which "true the face" are using a specialized tool which has a pilot that goes in the receiver.
There are debates on how much this actually helps if the receiver is not grossly out of spec. (Which billets will not be) With the observation that the aluminum face deforms some under the torque with the steel barrel flange/nut. Enough to handle small variances.
The other potential issue is that "facing" the receiver removes hardcoating. Maybe not an issue if you are doing some sealing or bedding, but will put AL against Steel.
Some people swear by it. Others view it as a "secret sauce" positioned as a differentiator which does not have much impact in the real world if you use a decent receiver to start with.
My rule of thumb would be that if you are not using a super premium barrel, that a quality, in spec receiver will not benefit much from truing. If you want to remove any possible variance on a high end build, it may make sense.
This is just my opinion, others may have different
What you guys think about J&T? - texasgrunt - 12-02-2011
Thanks Pinz. I am building this as a precision rifle with either a VLTOR MUR/Stiller Precision or a MEGA billet matched upper/lower with either a Templar Customs or LotharWalther Heavy Varmint barrel, but it sounds like I may be worrying over nothing. My current LW/VLTOR/Stiller shoot lights out (in my mind) was fine without considering this, but since I am spending the duckets I thought I would ask since those with more experience mentioned it.
Thanks again
Grunt