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+--- Thread: an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! (/showthread.php?tid=15426)
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - howl - 02-23-2018
rabiddawg Wrote:This actually happened this week at my wife’s school.
6 th grade boy asks teacher to change seats and was told no. Teach knew she would have trouble if she allowed it. Another female student was allowed to change seats; teacher knew it would not cause a problem. The male student proclaimed he “hates” the “sexist” teacher and is “going to shoot up the school”.
Teacher consults the person in charge of discipline who tells her “to just write him up”. Teacher feels that’s not right and consults the councilor. Thank goodness she saw the seriousness of this threat. Police, fire and ambulance showed up. Parents were called and the kid was held out the next day. I hope they all learned a lesson.
The solution to that issue is to beat his butt real good and get on with your life. The inability of the adults in that situation is the problem. The boy is being failed by those who should be responsible for raising him and those who take on that responsibility professionally.
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - stanc - 02-23-2018
grayfox Wrote:Now when it comes to the weapons debate I personally don't mind if bump stocks are restricted/removed... my theory is that a gun should be held to its (reasonable) original intended design... bump stocks, no. 100-round drums... not really a worry to me if they are gone. 20-30 round mags... leave alone b/c they are part of the original design and intent. regular mags for a glock... ok even if 13, 17, 19. A 50-round mag that sticks way down out of the glock.. not so much. I know some may ask where do you draw the line but I think there is a reasonable design line that can be identified.
Again these are my positions and opinions.
Anyone who takes such positions and holds such opinions is aiding the anti-gun agenda.How can pro-gun folks expect to ever prevail, when many (if not most) of them want "reasonable" restrictions on the Second Amendment?
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - stanc - 02-23-2018
rabiddawg Wrote:This actually happened this week at my wifes school.Threat? Given the story as told, it sounds more like venting. When people lose their temper, they sometimes say stuff they don't really mean and would never actually do.
6 th grade boy asks teacher to change seats and was told no. Teach knew she would have trouble if she allowed it. Another female student was allowed to change seats; teacher knew it would not cause a problem. The male student proclaimed he hates the sexist teacher and is going to shoot up the school.
Teacher consults the person in charge of discipline who tells her to just write him up. Teacher feels thats not right and consults the councilor. Thank goodness she saw the seriousness of this threat.
rabiddawg Wrote:Police, fire and ambulance showed up.Jeez, talk about overreaction.
rabiddawg Wrote:Parents were called and the kid was held out the next day. I hope they all learned a lesson.Question is, did the teacher learn anything about dispensing fair and equal treatment? The whole brouhaha was a result of her forbidding one student to do the same thing that she allowed another student to do.
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - howl - 02-23-2018
just_john Wrote:I reflect back into the early and mid 1960's when I was in high school. During dove season, there was hardly a car or pick-up in the parking lot that did not have a shotgun in it. Pick-ups had 'em in the back window. The idea of bringing one into the school to do harm was totally unthinkable. I knew a guy who carried a 10" butcher knife ( on him ) because he didn't have a car and worked in a meat market in the afternoons and this was his "pet" knife. We all knew it. The teachers knew it. And we all went about our lives. If there was a beef between some folks, it was either settled across the street or the coach settled it with the "board of education".
So what has changed in the last 50 years? There are only two variables, the who or the what! Guns may look a little different but they still work the same. That just leaves the people. So how people changed? Well, the media makes heroes of the bad guys. Video games make heroes of the bad guys. The criminal justice system seems to look the other way, mostly because they get persecuted / prosecuted for doing their jobs properly. And kids are taught to take on no sense of responsibility if something horrible is done, either by fact or intent.
And now they scream for justice when their own gets out of hand. I hear a lot of talk and speeches about changing or restricting the tools but very little about restricting the sources of persuasion that says this kind of thing is OK. If they want to change things, let their economics disuade the video game creators to stop making "Grand Theft Auto", stop the media from publicizing the 15 seconds of glory for some idiot who walks into a school building with evil intent.
I would like to add to this. I agree and experienced the part about guns being around and no problems. I went through school later and was there about the time having guns in your truck was stopped. This was also around the time you saw 20 year olds with a record showing up in high school. Administrators cannot handle those kids. I remember one instance specifically when one of the immigrated gang wannabes started harassing some girls. Then he intimidated the teacher supervising us. A half dozen of us boys ushered him off the property. Now, we'd all have been suspended for that. If we hadn't spent most of our time in school getting in fistfights as usual things we probably wouldn't have done it.
Later generations of teachers and administrators have a progressive agenda for the most part. Those people who ran your school were different people. The new people runs high schools like prisons. Surviving high school is a demoralizing experience. The truth is if I had not been a kid who topped out their standardized testing, made them look good by performance, I probably would have had a very difficult time making it out of high school at all. I was raised to be a man. These kids now...that doesn't fly. Kids who cannot or will not conform are going to have a great deal of resentment.
Then there are the kids who when you were in school would have not finished. They would have dropped out, flunked out, whatever. Now no child is to be left behind. They become a product of the educational system. So, you have kids that ought to be separated out becoming a product of the system with deviant tendencies made worse by being forced to stay in school. Public schools are creating these monsters.
So why, as they have to know this, must guns be the problem? One is the convenience of including school violence in the disarmament agenda. The other is plain old shifting the blame. If it were about solving the problems they would want to try something else when gun control is not passed.
They want everyone disarmed and under their control. Protecting the children will never be the primary concern because they expect to be free from responsibility for doing so.
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - howl - 02-23-2018
And now that I can post what I actually scrolled down to post in response to the OP! http://www.usaclaytarget.com is a group you could work with to achieve your goal.
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - grayfox - 02-24-2018
stanc Wrote:
How can pro-gun folks expect to ever prevail, when many (if not most) of them want "reasonable" restrictions on the Second Amendment?
The anti-gunners will continue to ply their agenda regardless of what we say or do; it's an ideology not affected by logic and feeds on itself.
Stan, with all due respect there are already some restrictions in place and no one seems to be suffering, nor do they feel constitutional rights have been violated (at least I haven't heard any).
1. NFA's, auto weapons must be registered.
2. No bazookas or rpg's in private hands.
3. No antiaircraft weapons in your backyard.
4. No 155 mm howitzers, or operating German 88's allowed in neighborhoods, no operating tanks allowed.
5. No chemical weapons, sarin, etc.
6. You can't buy C4 at Cabelas or anywhere else legally (that I know of).
All of these are "weapons" or "arms" in ordinary terms.
I think all of these are restricted, of course I could be wrong.
I'm told you can modify an AR to be full-auto although I haven't tried it and don't intend to.
I'm not anti-gun. I am anti-hallucinogenic drugs and anti-uncontrolling controlled substances.
I am totally pro-2A and pro-constitution.
I don't want my next door neighbor to have Rpg's or a missile bank on the back of their truck. Are these arms in the term "keep and bear arms"? Actually in colonial times I think private ownership of cannon may have been possible... although I don't have any sources to check that.
The same thing exists for other rights. There is no totally unabridged right to speech, like crying "fire" in a theater, or "bomb" in an airport.
Even in freedom of religion, you can't practice one that involves human sacrifices, and there were such religions, probably some in existence today.
So, no, I don't believe this aids an anti-gun agenda, although you are welcome to your opinion also ... like I said, they will push their stuff regardless of what we do. I do not let their hysteria control what I think and believe, haven't in the past, and don't intend to start doing so now.
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - grayfox - 02-24-2018
ps, I grew up and went to school in the 50's and 60's, in the midwest where there were plenty of guns in the backs of pickups. And zero airport security. So, yeah, I remember those times as well.
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - howl - 02-24-2018
If the government has RPGs and tanks then the people must have them, too. Anything more powerful than what civilians have should be stored offshore. Weapons are for defense of the people from threats from governments here and abroad, not for defense of government from the people.
I wonder how anyone can see those cops standing guard outside the house of the cop who refused to go in the school to help and think the government is on their side. They are on their side, not yours.
The education establishment is on the side of themselves and their progressive agenda, not the students. They will use any crisis to further their agenda. The agenda is disarmament and subjugation.
If you don't believe that, look at your tax bill versus their salaries. Look at what happens if you resist them taking your children. Who sets their salaries? They already think they own your children and your bank account. Next they want to disarm you so they can own you, too.
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - stanc - 02-24-2018
grayfox Wrote:The anti-gunners will continue to ply their agenda regardless of what we say or do...Of course. But, that doesn't negate my point: "Pro-gun" people who advocate restrictions on firearms and/or accessories, are aiding the anti-gunners.
grayfox Wrote:Stan, with all due respect there are already some restrictions in place and no one seems to be suffering, nor do they feel constitutional rights have been violated (at least I haven't heard any).Then you haven't been paying attention. There are many in the Horde (as well as the entire shooting community) who consider the NFA and other laws to be in violation of the Second Amendment.
Insofar as "suffering" is concerned, anyone who wants to buy a machine gun now is faced with paying exorbitant prices as a result of the 1986 federal ban on new manufacture.
grayfox Wrote:1. NFA's, auto weapons must be registered.I'm not sure about #5 and #6, but there are plenty of weapons like bazookas, recoilless rifles, artillery, and tanks in private hands.
2. No bazookas or rpg's in private hands.
3. No antiaircraft weapons in your backyard.
4. No 155 mm howitzers, or operating German 88's allowed in neighborhoods, no operating tanks allowed.
5. No chemical weapons, sarin, etc.
6. You can't buy C4 at Cabelas or anywhere else legally (that I know of).
Privately owned:
Bazooka ----------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0jpAKfmknw
Recoilless rifle ---------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ajMeiM3IHA
40mm antiaircraft gun - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSp7CipN1pw
German 88 -------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bGczFQIOc
Artillery ------------------ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eV8N0bUzA0
Tank
[video=youtube;rkbzZakcVrg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkbzZakcVrg[/video]
grayfox Wrote:I'm not anti-gun. I am anti-hallucinogenic drugs and anti-uncontrolling controlled substances.I'm pro-freedom. I don't care if people use hallucinogenic drugs and other controlled substances.
grayfox Wrote:I am totally pro-2A and pro-constitution.If you want them to be legally prohibited, then your second sentence contradicts the first. The 2A does not say it's okay to ban or restrict any types of arms.
I don't want my next door neighbor to have Rpg's or a missile bank on the back of their truck.
grayfox Wrote:Are these arms in the term "keep and bear arms"?Yes. As written, the 2A covers all types of arms.
grayfox Wrote:Actually in colonial times I think private ownership of cannon may have been possible...It was possible then, and is still possible now.
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - brian y - 02-25-2018
Hey Stanc, you say "I'm pro-freedom. I don't care if people use hallucinogenic drugs and other controlled substances" so how do you feel about these folks having guns?, It is becoming an on going argument here in Oregon since Pot is now legal.
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - stanc - 02-25-2018
As long as they're not committing crimes with guns, I'm okay with it.
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - dammitman - 02-26-2018
I shouldn't weigh in as I have not read every post in this thread. but, I have only one outward feeling about this and its that "they" are just never satisfied never ever. if we allow "them" to ban bumpstocks, 100 round magazines as inwardly I feel like they will be, we ALL KNOW THAT WILL NOT BE ENOUGH!!! "they" will just come back in a while and want more. some things I don't need or use but,,I MUST FIGHT TO PROTECT THEM FOR THOSE WHO DO because I know as well as we all do that they will eventually come after what I use while exersizing my 2nd amendment rights. its simple as that. we are going to lose a little at a time but they most assuredly get to you too eventually.
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - Klem - 02-27-2018
Banning bump stocks will not satisfy 'them', not because their agenda is incremental but for the simple reason that it won't stop the mass murders. Bump stocks and 100rd mags have only been used in one mass murder. All others have been committed with 30rd mags and using semi-auto fire. This includes overseas murders like Australia in 1996 (35 dead) and Norway in 2011 (77 dead) . A pro-gun argument would be, if you cannot guarantee the removal of all assault rifles from the few murderers intent on accessing these things then it is a clumsy and narrow-focussed way to stop these crimes.
The Norwegian murderer used an unlicensed Ruger Mini 14 to commit his atrocity, and the Australian used an unlicensed AR15 that he claims he purchased for cash under the counter at a Tasmanian gun shop. The point being that neither of these two murderers were entitled possess firearms in places that are more restricted than the US. This suggests that banning assault rifles in a place with porous borders and black market access will not completely eliminate mass murders using semi-auto's. Unless the argument is that there will still be mass murders but fewer than otherwise...So then, how many mass murders in a population of 360million justifies the emasculation of a sizable portion who derive a sense of cultural identity from these artefacts? To some anti gunners no amount of mass murders justifies access to semi-auto's whereas most pro gunners believe their right to ownership is inviolate and we should look elsewhere for the solution (e.g. mental health care)...and so the debate goes round and round.
an incredible new challenge - and we all gotta step up!! - dammitman - 02-27-2018
bite by bite. no debate from me at all. they are going to ban something, I feel pretty certain its gonna be bumpstocks (with fine print) and it is not gonna do anything to stop mass shootings at all.