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+--- Thread: Motivated Moscow Match Redux (/showthread.php?tid=14575)
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Sticks - 11-21-2018
I would probably kept up on this if I could find a carbide expander at .265 and .288 bushing for my sizing die. I really like the accuracy I got with mine stuffing a 123 ELD and matched charge weight. Sandy (Howa) really likes them.
I never did delve deeply into a simple pull/push with a 100 - 108. I was graciously given a selection of bullets to try, and I had a bad day at the range that probably skewed the results and never went back.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - m796rider - 11-21-2018
Sticks Wrote:I never did delve deeply into a simple pull/push with a 100 - 108. I was graciously given a selection of bullets to try, and I had a bad day at the range that probably skewed the results and never went back.
I've been swapping the Wolf factory bullets for Hornady 100gr ELD-Match. I just pull the factory bullets using a Hornady collet bullet puller, then seat my ELDs to 2.23 (or thereabouts).
Updated rounds look like this:
![[Image: 65g_100gr.jpg]](http://personal.visualitymedia.com/personal/ar15/65g_100gr.jpg)
And shoot like this (50yds, rapid fire from a bench; 1 round to adjust zero then a 7 round group):
![[Image: 65g_sbrtarget.jpg]](http://personal.visualitymedia.com/personal/ar15/65g_sbrtarget.jpg)
I'm using a Faxon 12" barrel, really love this rifle:
![[Image: 65g_sbr.jpg]](http://personal.visualitymedia.com/personal/ar15/65g_sbr.jpg)
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Sticks - 11-22-2018
Awesome. Glad someone has found this successful.
Excellent shooting BTW with a SBR and RDS.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - bj139 - 11-23-2018
m796rider Wrote:I've been swapping the Wolf factory bullets for Hornady 100gr ELD-Match. I just pull the factory bullets using a Hornady collet bullet puller, then seat my ELDs to 2.23 (or thereabouts).
Updated rounds look like this:
And shoot like this (50yds, rapid fire from a bench; 1 round to adjust zero then a 7 round group):
I'm using a Faxon 12" barrel, really love this rifle:
What size is your target? It looks like 6"x6".
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - m796rider - 11-23-2018
bj139 Wrote:What size is your target? It looks like 6"x6".
3x3 actually, each grid is 1/2 inch.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - joedirt199 - 11-26-2018
I loaded up some 90 tnts in the wolf cases with 28.5 gr of XBR for my deer loads. Didn't get to try them but my 29 grs of XBR in brass worked good with the 90 tnt.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Onebigelf - 12-07-2018
Has there been any indication that Wolf is going to switch to a proper size projectile?
I wonder if there is any chance of bulk primed Wolf cases?
I've been doing about the same thing that M796rider is doing, with about the same results.
John
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Sticks - 12-08-2018
The number of people that know that the bullet is undersized and prefer accuracy against dirt clod shooting at 50 yards is anemic at best.
If Wolf was to put out a different line at a slightly higher price point for a proper bullet, then that might gain some traction...say MSRP @ $.45 per round for a proper jacketed all lead construction 100 or 120 HPBT bullet at .264. They could really snag a market if they made the wanted 115 grain with a BFT sleek design for higher BC.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - TCStehle - 12-18-2018
I did a straight pull/push using Speer 90gr TNTs. I pulled the factory 100gr bullet and weighed the factory charge which was exactly 30.0gr for all 5 rounds. I then chamfered the case mouth, re-charged, seated a 90gr TNT at 2.210" and applied a light crimp using a Lee FCD. It's hard to determine the amount of crimp you're applying with the steel case but there were no marks on the case and the bullets were not deformed after crimping.
5 Shots out of a 16" BCA stainless steel barrel.
LabRadar:
Avg-2517
High-2533
Low-2503
ES-29
SD-11.7
1-2517
2-2503
3-2508
4-2522
5-2533
The factory Wolf ammo shot immediately before on the same day thru the same barrel.
LabRadar:
Avg-2520
High-2537
Low-2496
ES-41
SD-15.7
1-2502
2-2522
3-2496
4-2528
5-2520
6-2535
7-2537
So simply replacing the 100gr factory bullet with a Speer 90gr TNT yields roughly the same velocity but much better accuracy out of my rifle. My group size was easily less than 1/2 the size of the factory ammo and I wasn't really trying all that hard.
Hopefully someone finds this additional information useful during their Moscow Match experiments.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Sticks - 12-18-2018
Thank you for posting your data.
I am hoping someone can managed 1moa or slightly better by doing a straight pull/push, no case prep, or charge matching. Trick is going to fine the right boat tail bullet that won't take too much damage from the case shaving off the backside.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - joedirt199 - 12-18-2018
I always sand the inside of the neck with some emery cloth to keep the bullet going in amooth without shaving since I don't neck size the steel case.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Liquidmetal - 01-05-2019
I am going to dive into this as well, gonna follow m796rider's lead and use 100 gr. ELD-Ms. Straight pull/push, no case prep or charge manipulation.
Ordered the ELD-Ms this morning. Hopefully my two Grendels appreciate the effort.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Sticks - 01-06-2019
Do post your results.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Cotay - 12-02-2019
Liquidmetal Wrote:I am going to dive into this as well, gonna follow m796rider's lead and use 100 gr. ELD-Ms. Straight pull/push, no case prep or charge manipulation.
Ordered the ELD-Ms this morning. Hopefully my two Grendels appreciate the effort.
I'm curious how this went. I've got some 100gr Nosler Partitions on hand that I'm considering for a straight pull/push.
I'm also considering getting some 100gr Match Monsters from Midsouth and some 90gr TNT or Varmageddon pills.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Grendelshooter - 02-29-2020
Bumping this, Im wondering how the factory second 107smk would do for this Mexican match experiment.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Sticks - 03-02-2020
My straight up push / pull did not yield good results. Dumping and re-measuring all the powder and doing a proper load workup did. If somebody else has had any luck with the PP method, they have no posted in either Moscow Match thread.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Kswhitetails - 03-02-2020
Sticks, did you PP with the 107s? I'd bet the pressure will be a bit high with straight push pull. I'd drop by two grains and come up .3 in a ladder to see what irons out. I'm not convinced this is a good idea as the cost now reaches .45-.50 a round.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Sticks - 03-03-2020
The extra neck tension is where the issue is at I believe.
My opinion on the matter is that if one was going to devote the time to this, they need to be all pulled down, case necks expanded with a .263 neck turning mandrel, then proper load workup with the Wolf Powder and what ever pill you choose to put on top. .001 neck tension on a steel case ought to be more than sufficient. Even my first testing with the 123 ELD, I was getting some extremely accurate results at 40% the cost of Hornady Black.
However...now with American Gunner at the $.69 price mark....that makes the MM not really worth the effort unless you are really trying to get rid of some components.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - HuntTXhogs - 03-03-2020
90 grain TNT test here:
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?19261-Wolf-Ammunition-swapping-100-gr-for-90-gr-Speer-TNT-and-reloading-powder-charge
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - HuntTXhogs - 03-03-2020
100 grain Nosler Partition here :
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?19428-Wolf-Ammunition-swapping-100-gr-Nosler-Partition-and-reloading-powder-charge