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+-- Forum: 6.5 GRENDEL DISCUSSION FORUMS (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: 6.5 Grendel ARs and Other Semi-Autos (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Thread: New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! (/showthread.php?tid=1166)
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - warped - 10-09-2011
Does not really matter, there are even better manufacturers online now, they are turning out 6.5mm blanks with the appropriate twists.
Cut rifle bbls that are world class are available,what more could you ask?
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - Mutt - 10-09-2011
txgunner00 Wrote:I certainly hope so!
Last time I talk to Satern (couple months ago) I asked them if it was true they weren't making Grendels anymore. They said that is true. Then, I asked them if they would be making any other kind of 6.5mm or 6.5LBC kind of barrel and they said they they were. So, satern is still making 6.5 AR barrels. They are just not making Grendel barrels. Which is why I asked my initial questions about the other barrel makers. If I buy a 6.5LBC (which I wouldn't) would it be considered SAAMI certified since the throat is different than Grendel??
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - BluntForceTrauma - 10-09-2011
Mutt, no it wouldn't, because SAAMI specs define both the cartridge and the chambering. SAAMI has one cartridge and one chambering drawing for 6.5 Grendel.
John
P.S. With AA's release of licensing requirements, perhaps Satern would just take the easy route back and resume chambering 6.5 Grendel?
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - blackfoot - 10-09-2011
I'm confused about why it would matter if it's a SAMMI chamber or not (for the purpose of the last two posts, I realize the implication in the market of it being SAAMI approved)? THe .264LBC chamber is compatable with 6.5 Grendel Ammo. There are a lot of variations of many chambers for many cartridges that are being chambered right now. How many .308 reamer demensions do you think there are? A lot of custom makers tweak chamber specs for customer rifles, but they are still safe to fire SAMMI spec ammo. It really doesn't change anything that I am aware of for a custom maker, except now maybe he could call it a 6.5 Grendel "Tight Neck", or "Match", or whatever instead of coming up with a name that doesn't violate a copyright.
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - Mutt - 10-09-2011
Well, I would assume (and I am really guessing here) that a company would want to stick with a SAAMI certified chamber/ammo for liability reasons. Imagine a person buying rifle and having it kaboom on them. If it wasn't certified to be safe by SAAMI it would be easier for a person to sue the company or store that sells it. But, if I ran a gun store and sold a product that off the shelf that was SAAMI certified, I could stand behind the fact that the weapon and ammo was certified safe and was manufacturered to the listed SAAMI specs. Anything else, would be "non-certified safe" wildcat rifle/ammo.
But, that is just a wild guess on my part ...... but it does make sense.
I do have to say that the sportsmans warehouse we have in town here only sells certified weapons and ammo.
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - blackfoot - 10-09-2011
I think it only matters to the "box stores" of the world, and lawyers. Custom makers have been chambering many variations of many chamberings for years. In your example, everybody who has been selling either 6.5 Grendel, .264 LBC, etc., would not be doing so right now. So, for those besides the box stores and some ammo makers, it changes nothing really except they are now able to use the Grendel name I assume. For the marketplace, it does open up a lot more ammo, gun manufacturers, and lawyered up stores to carrying the Grendel, which is a good thing for everybody. I could be wrong, but I believe SAMMI only specifies demensions and pressures which ammo and chambers are to be spec'd at, it does not certify that a manufacturer is actually making them to spec or out of material that would deem it safe, so there is no SAMMI "cerfitied safe" ammo or gun.
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - LRRPF52 - 10-09-2011
Changing leade and neck dimensions in the chamber definitely can affect pressures and reliability, which is what people have often seen when using a different chamber with factory Grendel ammo on the larger end of spec.
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - brickcues - 10-10-2011
Wow, glad to see that AA released the Grendel. I had tried to have a 28" cut rifled barrel made but this was about the time that Saturn went out of the Grendel business and no one else produced them. I had talked to AA and had no luck with any of their suggestions. I ended up talking to Pacific Tool and had to order a 264 LBC AR reamer and go gage since they could not sell me a Grendel reamer then sending this to Krieger to have them cut the chamber. The funny thing is after I got the gun together and fired it and measured the brass the neck was .300. I was under the understanding that the neck should be .295 for that reamer. I then measured the reamer and sure enough the reamer measured .300. So now do I have a 264 LBC AR with a .300 neck or do I have a Grendel reamer that is marked as 264 LBC AR?
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - LRRPF52 - 10-10-2011
I think there have been people mixing all different kinds of neck and leade dimensions, which would be deviations from the Grendel chamber. A .300 neck diameter will be the most reliable in an auto-loader. I've seen plenty of people on here with excellent accuracy results using Grendel chambers and both cut-rifled and button-rifled pipes. If it doesn't go bang, supposed accuracy gains from a .295" neck will be meaningless, unless malfunctions were the objective.
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - pinzgauer - 10-10-2011
LRRPF52 Wrote:If it doesn't go bang, supposed accuracy gains from a .295" neck will be meaningless, unless malfunctions were the objective.
There are enough people shooting great groups with .300 necks that any supposed accuracy advantage has largely been debunked. Now you hear "I don't want to overwork my brass" as the justification for the .295 neck. (Most recently on some of the anti AA forums)
My read is this whole subject is just a way for some mfg's to differentiate themselves as "better" or custom, etc.
Regarding SAAMI vs potential brass/chamber issues, recognize that even in well established rounds like .243 and 7mm08 that you still find factory bolt guns which do not like factory brass. IE: Shoulder radius issues, etc. We experienced this with an RP rifle even with RP 7mm08 unfired brass! Yet full length resize it and it's fine.
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - LRRPF52 - 10-10-2011
pinzgauer Wrote:There are enough people shooting great groups with .300 necks that any supposed accuracy advantage has largely been debunked. Now you hear "I don't want to overwork my brass" as the justification for the .295 neck. (Most recently on some of the anti AA forums)
My read is this whole subject is just a way for some mfg's to differentiate themselves as "better" or custom, etc.
Regarding SAAMI vs potential brass/chamber issues, recognize that even in well established rounds like .243 and 7mm08 that you still find factory bolt guns which do not like factory brass. IE: Shoulder radius issues, etc. We experienced this with an RP rifle even with RP 7mm08 unfired brass! Yet full length resize it and it's fine.
Roger that. Any gunsmith or precision rifle builder who was chaffed about not getting a Grendel reamer and free license, but saw the advantages of the caliber in the AR15 frame and was getting tons of questions and demand from customers wouldn't want to be the guy telling customers "no, I can't do that" all the time, so a better "but still takes the same cartridges" chamber/reamer would be offered, and voila. I've read such claims where the guys say their pipes will shoot .2 MOA, while their AA barrels are garbage, without specifying if the AA barrel was an economy ER Shaw, or a cut-rifled stick at twice the price. The cut-rifled pipes with real Grendel chambers shoot like a bench gun, from what I've seen. I personally am convinced to stay away from the .295" chambers, unless I was chambering in a bolt gun for some reason.
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - sneaky one - 10-11-2011
LRRP., awesome post as always,,, When I first looked in to the grendel cartridge, I noticed the 2 diff. chambers,, and thought - so what, on such a tiny difference. It really is not worth an argument, or even a chat. the .300 is mine , and I'm very happy with it. I hunt in a bad ass area, with some bad ass predators., I would prefer a chamber that will function fine- even if a bit of carbon is built up inside it. As to the brass being over worked... I am going to take up brass annealing 101 as per steel 89's advice. Awesome Big- Kid forum here , (( Our Gang - any one remember the lil rascals, from the old 1930's shows ? that's what we have here- LOL !, on this forum ! )) Enjoy this easy shooting round thats also -so easy to reload for., and quite the game getter !!!!!!!!!!!
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - Hoot - 10-11-2011
LRRPF52 Wrote:Roger that. Any gunsmith or precision rifle builder who was chaffed about not getting a Grendel reamer and free license, but saw the advantages of the caliber in the AR15 frame and was getting tons of questions and demand from customers wouldn't want to be the guy telling customers "no, I can't do that" all the time, so a better "but still takes the same cartridges" chamber/reamer would be offered, and voila. I've read such claims where the guys say their pipes will shoot .2 MOA, while their AA barrels are garbage, without specifying if the AA barrel was an economy ER Shaw, or a cut-rifled stick at twice the price. The cut-rifled pipes with real Grendel chambers shoot like a bench gun, from what I've seen. I personally am convinced to stay away from the .295" chambers, unless I was chambering in a bolt gun for some reason.
Hey now! My economy AR Stoner (ER Shaw) 24" barrel with AA bolt shoots 5-shot groups into a half inch bullseye at 100 yards. Any better would require me to spend a lot more time behind the trigger. It's certainly not the barrel's fault. I did notice that Midway, where I bought it, now no longer refers to it as a 6.5 Grendel though. I suspect they got a nasty gram or something, which is too bad as that's the name for this caliber with the most recognition, as it should be. Tsk Tsk...
Hoot
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - bwaites - 10-11-2011
Hoot Wrote:Hey now! My economy AR Stoner (ER Shaw) 24" barrel with AA bolt shoots 5-shot groups into a half inch bullseye at 100 yards. Any better would require me to spend a lot more time behind the trigger. It's certainly not the barrel's fault. I did notice that Midway, where I bought it, now no longer refers to it as a 6.5 Grendel though. I suspect they got a nasty gram or something, which is too bad as that's the name for this caliber with the most recognition, as it should be. Tsk Tsk...
Hoot
I doubt Midway got a note. My suspicion is that Satern/Liberty told them to stop using the Grendel name on their barrels, which probably also meant the Stoner line.
ER Shaw continues to make LOTS of Grendel barrels.
I think that the Stoner barrels were Liberty, not Shaw, barrels.
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - stanc - 10-12-2011
[video=youtube;TwUI-uIl-cw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwUI-uIl-cw[/video]
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - RStewart - 10-12-2011
Hey, wait a minute....all that Wolf ammo worked. LOL!
Great video, Stan. Nice to see Krebs' moving forward with the AK variant of the Grendel and I notice they mentioned there were "several" different Grendel rifles available to try out.
Hopefully, signs of good things to come.
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - RangerRick - 10-13-2011
RStewart Wrote:Hey, wait a minute....all that Wolf ammo worked. LOL!
.
Yeah, and without even denting the primers! In the intro that is. LOL.
RR
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - FLDad - 10-13-2011
I wonder if more ammo mfrs will jump on board now...
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - bwaites - 10-14-2011
They talk about the Grendel, but they show the .17 HMR being fired! LOL!!
New Announcements from the Big 3 meetings in Kansas! - RangerRick - 10-14-2011
bwaites Wrote:They talk about the Grendel, but they show the .17 HMR being fired! LOL!!
I'm just glad there were so many mentions of the Grendel in reference to both guns and ammo. It seems to be gaining in the marketplace.
RR