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+--- Thread: Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) (/showthread.php?tid=7599)
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - pds - 02-24-2015
GregB. Wrote:I am no pro, nor a gunsmith, nor claim to know everything the is to know about barrels. I have really only been in to custom rifles and precision shooting for a few years, I learned a lot from a good buddy who is a wealth of knowledge and has some military sniper time under his belt. What he has told me is a mass produced rifle such as a good old remington 700 should be properly broke in for best performance. However your top notch custom barrels it is not as important due to aspects such as hand lapping (as mentioned already) and very precise manufacturing practices. Does this make sense? It is what I have been led to believe and makes sense to me?
Greg,
Most all benchrest shooters follow a break-in procedure of some kind on their new custom barrel. Most custom barrel makers have a break-in procedure and recommend the customer follows it. A lot of shooters don't. Too each his own.
pds
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - bwaites - 02-24-2015
Barrel makers make barrels, it makes sense that they have specified procedures for break in. I pay them to make a barrel that should be both accurate and have minimal fouling out of the box if I am buying a custom barrel. That's not necessarily true for factory, mass produced barrels, though I have seen enough pictures of the insides of factory Savage barrels to understand that they dont have to be perfect to shoot lights out.
When a barrel maker tells me that I have to follow a specific break in procedure to get the best accuracy out of his barrel, especially when its a high end, match barrel, I think I'm being blown smoke. Benchrest shooters developed their procedures in decades past, when most barrels simply weren't finished the way they can be now, before the days of borescopes and so on. They haven't changed because most benchrest shooters are aging geezers older than me that believe if it worked then, it must still be necessary, dang it!
I admire their pursuit of perfection, but apart from their sport, barrel break in, at least with high end barrels, is not necessary. Why pay for a custom barrel, then burn a percentage of its useable life breaking it in? Shoot it, shoot it, shoot it!
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - pds - 02-24-2015
I knew I was getting old. Didn't know I was an "old benchrest geezer" though :-))
pds
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - bwaites - 02-24-2015
pds Wrote:I knew I was getting old. Didn't know I was an "old benchrest geezer" though :-))
pds
LOL! Everytime I go to a long range match I realize that I'm not that old (at 52) because I'm usually in the youngest 2 or 3 at the match! Even in F class that's true!
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - Adam Lilja - 02-24-2015
http://riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_making/barrel_fouling.htm
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - Kikn - 02-24-2015
Adam Lilja Wrote:http://riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_making/barrel_fouling.htm
That is what I was referencing in my post above. Although I think what I read was a different article of publication the same holds true. Clean out the copper and leave the carbon behind. If you clean out the carbon and the copper you must break in the barrel again cleaning out the copper and leaving the carbon behind..
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - bwaites - 02-24-2015
I've read that in the past, but I've also heard the opposite, that copper is good, carbon is bad. I really wonder if we have any real grasp about what the issues with barrels REALLY are. I'm looking for the article on cold bore shots and copper fouling as a good sign.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - pds - 02-24-2015
bwaites Wrote:LOL! Everytime I go to a long range match I realize that I'm not that old (at 52) because I'm usually in the youngest 2 or 3 at the match! Even in F class that's true!
Patience grasshopper your turn will come.
pds
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - IceAxe - 02-25-2015
I recently picked up some bulk Sierra moly bullets in 6mm to use in my 6mmx45. I read somewhere that you should clean out any copper fowling prior to shooting moly coated bullets. It is my first time shooting moly. I generally just snake the barrel with clp after shooting. I picked up some Montana copper killer and liberally applied it to a patch and let it sit for 15 minutes, when I ran a clean patch through...no blue. I repeated the process and still no blue. I don't know if it has something to do with the polygonal barrel or todays barrels have a better bore finish.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - Adam Lilja - 02-25-2015
IceAxe Wrote:I recently picked up some bulk Sierra moly bullets in 6mm to use in my 6mmx45. I read somewhere that you should clean out any copper fowling prior to shooting moly coated bullets. It is my first time shooting moly. I generally just snake the barrel with clp after shooting. I picked up some Montana copper killer and liberally applied it to a patch and let it sit for 15 minutes, when I ran a clean patch through...no blue. I repeated the process and still no blue. I don't know if it has something to do with the polygonal barrel or todays barrels have a better bore finish.
Soak a bronze brush in the stuff and brush your bore out and then wait a bit while it soaks and you'll think you killed a smurf.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - NugginFutz - 02-25-2015
Adam Lilja Wrote:Soak a bronze brush in the stuff and brush your bore out and then wait a bit while it soaks and you'll think you killed a smurf.
If it's a BHW barrel, maybe not so much. Those polygonal barrels just don't retain much copper or powder residue. However, I have seen the tell-tale blue just from a bronze brush being attacked by the ammonia. That's why I try to stick to nylon brushes when I'm trying to eradicate CU. That way I don't get false positives from the tools.
ETA: If you do use bronze brushes with copper removers, I suggest rinsing the brush in hot water, afterward. This will neutralize the solution and help protect the bronze brush from degradation. (I had a 30 cal bronze brush that turned into a .243-ish brush because I had exposed it to some Tetra copper remover, and left it.)
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - bwaites - 02-25-2015
Adam Lilja Wrote:Soak a bronze brush in the stuff and brush your bore out and then wait a bit while it soaks and you'll think you killed a smurf.
BHW barrels have no lands and grooves. They demonstate very minimal copper fouling if any at all. My brand new 264 LBC never had any copper fouling to speak of, nor did my 5.56 barrel. They were by far the easiest to clean barrels I ever had. I used Montana Extreme Copper on both, scrubbing with fiber brushes to make sure I wasn't getting blue from the brush, and never really saw any copper at all.
OOPs. Nugginfutz beat me to it!
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - GregB. - 02-27-2015
Can anyone tell me or direct me to info on who makes AA barrels. I have researched till my fingers bleed and cannot find anything?...
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - bwaites - 02-27-2015
GregB. Wrote:Can anyone tell me or direct me to info on who makes AA barrels. I have researched till my fingers bleed and cannot find anything?...
AA chambers their own, generally. They use various different manufacturers for the blanks, but no longer publish or directly acknowledge whose they are using at any given time, like most manufacturers.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - lamrith - 03-02-2015
Hrmmmm,
I have a Brownells 18" Grendel barrel in my rig. I did not do any breakin on my Grendel, maybe ran a patch thru it after the 1st 5 rounds I shot very slowly. She has 60rnds thru her total at this point. Yesterday was second day out with it, made scope changes so had to rezero. Plane-jane AR lower, $70 ALG Defense trigger, $60 BSA 6-24x40 scope, Not fully bagged I managed this.
![[Image: target3-1-15_zpshwedtisz.jpg]](http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/lamrith/media/target3-1-15_zpshwedtisz.jpg.html)
I am curious what it would do from a sled or with one of the more experienced shooters here.. Tell you what I am more than happy and looking forward to putting some Game on the table this year!
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - motoxxx_ryder - 03-10-2015
I was under the impression any high quality barrel is lapped from the factory and needs no break in. what you want is a smooth transistion from the chamber to the throat. and that only takes a few patches. i always run oiled patch then a dry patch on a new barrel just to get anything out. then fire once, solvent patch dry patch shoot 10 solvent patch dry patch then follow kriegers method.
https://kriegerbarrels.com/faq#breakin
Because the lay of the finish is in the direction of the bullet travel, very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct; much like the teeth on a very fine file.
When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is removed from the jacket material and released into the gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this plasma and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools, the copper comes out of suspension and is deposited in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat.
more at link
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - DeadDownRange - 03-16-2015
Aftermarker barrel need no "break in." As stated in the article by Gale McMillan, a barrel maker told buyers to break in their barrels and it boosted sales 10%. Thats like a tire company telling you to do a 3 second burn out to ensure your tires are round. Great way to sell more product. A lot of companies will void a warranty if anything is done to change the interior of the barrel (home lapping, fire lapping, final finish, etc.) And as stated above, benchrest shooters developed break in of sorts years ago when barrels we're complete due to old techniques of manufacturing. Also, nothing in the benchrest world should ever EVER be brought into the AR world. Those guys are dealing with 20+ pound guns that are worthless except for putting tiny holes in paper a long ways away. There are no moving parts. Everything is spotless, and match winning groups can be called to the 3rd and 4th decimal place. ARs need slop and can handle dirt just fine. No need for benchrest OCD. It'll just drive you crazt. In the days when CMM machines with ruby heads can measure parts to the millionths, top quality barrel makers give you a finished product. Just shoot it.
~DDR
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - Mesa1978 - 08-18-2015
I have one of the Grendel chambered AR Stoner Liberty barrels in 24" length. After 120 shots and one cleaning with Hoppe's Bench Rest at 50 shots, it printed 1/4 MOA 5 shot groups with 123 Scenars yesterday. Interesting that what some say is a low-moderate quality barrel can shoot this well without any specialized process for break-in.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - Rickc - 09-04-2016
Just my opinion on barrel break-in. Barrels I use are bartlein, Kraiger, shilen and I am about to break in a JP grendel.
I believe that even in a premium hand lapped barrel you will find machine marks in the throat of the barrel. First few shots will usually smooth them out. But copper jacket material will be vaporized and deposited in the barrel.
My opinion is you need to remove that copper.
I follow shoot 1 and clean for 5 shots. I use boretech eliminator with jags and nylon brushes that will not give you a.false.positive for copper. Boretech eliminator will get the copper and give you that tell tail blue color in its presence but is not ammonia based.
After 5 and a short.soak if no blue which is usually the case the barrel break-in is done. If there is blue then repeat.
After that I will shoot some five shot groups cleaning.after each group just because that is what.I do.
I grew up cleaning after every hunting trip. Find that i feel guilty if I put.a.gun away dirty. Just.me.
Barrel Break-In (or how to shorten a barrel's useful life) - NugginFutz - 09-05-2016
But the question is: "Why do you need to completely remove the copper?" BHW's Carl Caudle specifically recommends against using any ammonia based cleaners in order to retain a gilding layer of copper within the barrel. He asserts that it is that thin layer of copper which reduces friction wear on the bare metal of the bore.
Don't get me wrong, Rick - my very best shooter is a .308 which I bought 2nd hand from the LGS. The bore was terribly fouled, and would only deliver mediocre groups. I ran several patches of Tetra through the barrel, with the first 3 or 4 coming out a deep royal blue. It took close to 50 patches to get most of it out. The previous owner apparently didn't own a cleaning rod.
Finally, from the aforementioned article, I quote Mr. McMillan:
Quote:I have been a barrel maker a fair amount of time and my barrels have set and reset benchrest world records so many times I quit keeping track (at one time they held 7 at one time) along with High Power, Silhouette, Smallbore national and world records and my instructions were to clean as often as possible preferably every 10 rounds. I inspect every barrel taken off and every new barrel before it is shipped with a bore scope and I will tell you all that I see far more barrels ruined by cleaning rods than I see worn out from normal wear and tear.’
To this end, I have drastically reduced the amount of barrel cleaning all my weapons receive. While I still hit the pistol actions and BCG's with Gun Blast / Brake Cleaner, I don't run the bore brushes but every few hundred rounds, now. Not surprisingly, my groups are every bit as good, and my guns have not been reduced to dirt and ash.