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+--- Thread: New Executive Orders from the Kenyan (/showthread.php?tid=5425)
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - montana - 04-24-2013
The people who claim he was not a U.S. citizen may be wrong about his nationality but did it not lead to the fraud he may have committed in obtaining funds for his education or his illegal act of not registering for selective service. If he did not register for selective service he is by law not allowed to hold any government job including the office he holds at the moment. As bewaites stated," where there is smoke there is fire".
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - BjornF16 - 04-24-2013
I'm all for investigating potential fraud associated with his application to the various universities he attended. I'm also for looking into whether or not he registered for Selective Service. Those are legitimate questions.
Referring to him as "The Kenyan" infers a couple of possibilities:
1. One believes he is not a US citizen because he was born in Kenya (an ignorant assertion), or
2. Indicates a racist belief system
Either one of these undermines one's credibility.
Focus on the credible charges, and leave the conspiracy theories (pop culture definition) to the crack pots.
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - stanc - 04-24-2013
BjornF16 Wrote:I'm all for investigating potential fraud associated with his application to the various universities he attended. I'm also for looking into whether or not he registered for Selective Service.To what end? What do you hope to accomplish by such an investigation?
Quote:Focus on the credible charges...Whether or not they're credible, they seem to me of such overwhelmingly minor importance as to not be worth the time and effort required. Aren't there a multitude of far more important issues that merit attention?
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - davidj - 04-24-2013
BjornF16 Wrote:I'm all for investigating potential fraud associated with his application to the various universities he attended. I'm also for looking into whether or not he registered for Selective Service. Those are legitimate questions.
I think it will be easier to get Congress to vote for term limits
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - montana - 04-24-2013
You have assumed Nukes could possibly be a racist because he used the term Kenyan. Is he not half Kenyan, is it bad to be a Kenyan? Did you take that as an insult and if you did why? Perhaps he used Kenyan as a derogatory remark to the hypocrisy Obama created when he stated his nationality as Kenyan in the Harvard law bio. I have noticed nukes questions many policies that may be controversial but I have never read any racist remarks and he has many times stated the same. The thing I think people get wrong is he doesn't have double standards, he holds all people and nations feet to the same fire. We will have to respectfully disagree about this assumption.
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - BjornF16 - 04-24-2013
montana Wrote:You have assumed Nukes could possibly be a racist because he used the term Kenyan. Is he not half Kenyan, is it bad to be a Kenyan? Did you take that as an insult and if you did why? Perhaps he used Kenyan as a derogatory remark to the hypocrisy Obama created when he stated his nationality as Kenyan in the Harvard law bio. I have noticed nukes questions many policies that may be controversial but I have never read any racist remarks and he has many times stated the same. The thing I think people get wrong is he doesn't have double standards, he holds all people and nations feet to the same fire. We will have to respectfully disagree about this assumption.
I didn't say he was racist. I said there are two possibilities (and listed them), there may be more. If you look back at the early posts, I asked if he really thought he wasn't a US citizen. I gave him the benefit of doubt. If he is merely ignorant of US law, then it would be an opportunity to educate him (and any others who propagate such non-sense). If neither ignorant nor racist, then it is an opportunity to give other options.
stanc Wrote:To what end? What do you hope to accomplish by such an investigation?
Whether or not they're credible, they seem to me of such overwhelmingly minor importance as to not be worth the time and effort required. Aren't there a multitude of far more important issues that merit attention?
I don't disagree with you Stan. I'm really just trying to get conservatives who oppose Obama to quit using obviously obtuse arguments and focus on credible issues, otherwise they risk not being heard at all.
For instance, calling him "The Kenyan" risks exposing your ignorance or racism (in reasonable peoples opinions). If you don't like the policies, then perhaps "Our Dear Leader" is more appropriate given his propensity to manipulate the media, pose like Mao, Stalin, etc., and his socialist policies. But even that risks turning people off of your actual message.
Chances are if you use the terminology here, you're using it when debating (arguing, discussing) others whose opinions you might actually sway.
Of course, if one moron only talks to other morons, it doesn't really matter.
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - BjornF16 - 04-24-2013
davidj Wrote:I think it will be easier to get Congress to vote for term limits
If term limits are good enough for the president, then they are good enough for Congress!
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - davidj - 04-24-2013
BjornF16 Wrote:If term limits are good enough for the president, then they are good enough for Congress!
Agreed! However, if one looks back it was Congress' desire to limit the power (longevity) of the Presidency that got the Amendment rolling. Do you really think that they would be interested in doing that to themselves?
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - BjornF16 - 04-24-2013
davidj Wrote:Agreed! However, if one looks back it was Congress' desire to limit the power (longevity) of the Presidency that got the Amendment rolling. Do you really think that they would be interested in doing that to themselves?
No, I'm not sure we would need an amendment or not. If so, let's circumvent the congressional route and initiate it from the states (method of which, has never been used).
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - montana - 04-24-2013
. If he is merely ignorant of US law, then it would be an opportunity to educate him (and any others who propagate such non-sense).
I was ignorant of this law if what you have said was true. I guess his nationality is a moot point now.
.
For instance, calling him "The Kenyan" risks exposing your ignorance or racism (in reasonable peoples opinions). If you don't like the policies, then perhaps "Our Dear Leader" is more appropriate given his propensity to manipulate the media, pose like Mao, Stalin, etc., and his socialist policies. But even that risks turning people off of your actual message.
You may have a point here but I don't think the left has any problem manipulating non truths any more than truths.
.
Of course, if one moron only talks to other morons, it doesn't really matter.[/QUOTE
This is the kind of statement that leaves me. If you have a point and can correct someones ignorance about a subject by all means go ahead, but calling people morons not only discredits the subject at hand but all people involved.
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - cory - 04-24-2013
BjornF16 Wrote:Referring to him as "The Kenyan" infers a couple of possibilities:
2. Indicates a racist belief system
REALLY? He's made it crystal clear that he prefers his Kenyan Heritage while RESENTING his European heritage. Culturally he's made it clear he more closely relates to the culture of his African "Brothers" than he does the American culture.
Therefore refering to him as the "KENYAN" is very much approproate and has ZERO to do with racism.
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - stanc - 04-24-2013
BjornF16 Wrote:I didn't say he was racist. I said there are two possibilities (and listed them), there may be more. If you look back at the early posts, I asked if he really thought he wasn't a US citizen. I gave him the benefit of doubt. If he is merely ignorant of US law, then it would be an opportunity to educate him (and any others who propagate such non-sense). If neither ignorant nor racist, then it is an opportunity to give other options.I think that the primary intent of terms like "The Kenyan" is to convey disrespect and contempt, just as George "Dubya" Bush was referred to as "Dumbya" by some people.
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - Nukes - 04-24-2013
Anyone (or nobody in particular) who aspires to being a qualified thought police officer or политический комисса́р would do well to investigate what formal legal action is required to establish jus sanguinis natural-born citizenship when a child is born out of the USA and only one parent is a USA citizen. This is an especially good idea before bandying about the appellation "morons," ritual epithets like "racist," or pontificating on the precise (or approximate) number of possible explanations.
I believe his grandma and Joe Arpaio in this regard.
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - BjornF16 - 04-24-2013
Nukes Wrote:Anyone (or nobody in particular) who aspires to being a qualified thought police officer or политический комисса́р would do well to investigate what formal legal action is required to establish jus sanguinis natural-born citizenship when a child is born out of the USA and only one parent is a USA citizen. This is an especially good idea before bandying about the appellation "morons," ritual epithets like "racist," or pontificating on the precise (or approximate) number of possible explanations.
I believe his grandma and Joe Arpaio in this regard.
LOL. Well no one in particular I have. I have two cases that I've investigated pertaining to my family. Thanks for playing.
It doesn't really matter if he were born in Kenya or Hawaii. As long as his mother was a US citizen at his birth, so is he. Many people get confused over the "natural born" clause (i.e. ignorance). Ted Cruz, for instance, was born in Canada, yet he is eligible to be President because at least one of his parents was a US citizen when he was born there. Also, John McCain was NOT born in the USA, but in Panama.
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - TheOTHERmaninblack - 04-24-2013
BjornF16 Wrote:Incorrect. US citizenship is AUTOMATICALLY conferred, even if only one parent is US citizen. The reason for the consular report is to show an official record of claim to citizenship, not to initiate some process to gain citizenship. This avoids potentially any legal questions over citizenship or not.
See http://travel.state.gov/law/family_issues/birth/birth_593.html
Note there is no time limit other than child's age of 18 YEARS.
If you are going to cite US law/policy, then at least offer a reference, link and/or quote to back your claim.
You seem to have found the citation reasonably well on your own and without my help. Good on you. I suppose that you and I read that citation differently.
You will note that I never claimed that Barry wasn't a U.S. citizen. I merely called shenanigans, which I will continue to maintain.
Claiming that any questioning of the veracity of a group of people who, by their nature, revel in secret plots and covert operations dilutes credibility is somewhat akin to saying that any opinions varying from the established doctrine are illegitimate. Where there are legitimate questions, it's reasonable to request legitimate answers. When the answers to even dodgy questions are cloaked in misdirection and fabrication, (admittedly, perhaps in order to fuel the conspiracy theory and thereby discredit the questioners) it leads to further speculation.
Not everything is a plot, but then again, not everything isn't.
ETA: In reading through the remainder of the thread, I note that your sanctimony is growing. And you think espousing conspiracy theories dilutes credibility? Derogatory statements and the hurling about of insults does you no favors, and the use of the term "reasonable" in this political climate, and with the abuse that word has undergone, marks you in ways I do not think you want.
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - Nukes - 04-24-2013
Born out of the USA with only one parent as US citizen and without the necessary filing, one is eligible, but, absent the formal filing, is not a natural-born US citizen. If not formally claimed, the eligibility is lost on reaching the age of majority.
If it was "automatic," there would be nothing to expire at 18 years of age.
If he could adduce the necessary filings, he would have done so. If he could adduce the necessary filings, he would have no need for his fraudulent "long form." — and there are the other shenanigans as well.
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - BjornF16 - 04-24-2013
TheOTHERmaninblack Wrote:You seem to have found the citation reasonably well on your own and without my help. Good on you. I suppose that you and I read that citation differently.
You will note that I never claimed that Barry wasn't a U.S. citizen. I merely called shenanigans, which I will continue to maintain.
Claiming that any questioning of the veracity of a group of people who, by their nature, revel in secret plots and covert operations dilutes credibility is somewhat akin to saying that any opinions varying from the established doctrine are illegitimate. Where there are legitimate questions, it's reasonable to request legitimate answers. When the answers to even dodgy questions are cloaked in misdirection and fabrication, (admittedly, perhaps in order to fuel the conspiracy theory and thereby discredit the questioners) it leads to further speculation.
Not everything is a plot, but then again, not everything isn't.
I think I answered this elsewhere DO question the legitimate questions; if you want people to listen, then DON'T pursue the ridiculous. While I agree with Stanc that certain questions miss the bigger issues, I think it is legitimate to question why he won't release his college entrance records (without questioning his birthplace), as well as questioning his Selective Service registration.
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - montana - 04-24-2013
TheOTHERmaninblack Wrote:You seem to have found the citation reasonably well on your own and without my help. Good on you. I suppose that you and I read that citation differently.
You will note that I never claimed that Barry wasn't a U.S. citizen. I merely called shenanigans, which I will continue to maintain.
Claiming that any questioning of the veracity of a group of people who, by their nature, revel in secret plots and covert operations dilutes credibility is somewhat akin to saying that any opinions varying from the established doctrine are illegitimate. Where there are legitimate questions, it's reasonable to request legitimate answers. When the answers to even dodgy questions are cloaked in misdirection and fabrication, (admittedly, perhaps in order to fuel the conspiracy theory and thereby discredit the questioners) it leads to further speculation.
Not everything is a plot, but then again, not everything isn't.
ETA: In reading through the remainder of the thread, I note that your sanctimony is growing. And you think espousing conspiracy theories dilutes credibility? Derogatory statements and the hurling about of insults does you no favors, and the use of the term "reasonable" in this political climate, and with the abuse that word has undergone, marks you in ways I do not think you want.
This was a good reply and you didn't have to use Moron, racist or ridiculous to force your point. :]
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - BjornF16 - 04-24-2013
Nukes Wrote:Born out of the USA with only one parent as US citizen and without the necessary filing is not a natural-born US citizen. If not formally claimed, the eligibility is lost on reaching the age of majority.
If he could adduce the necessary filings, he would have done so. If he could adduce the necessary filings, he would have no need for his fraudulent "long form." and there are the other shenanigans as well.
It is actually more complicated than what you (or I, for that matter) have suggested. There are other conditions if only one parent is a US citizen, but those aren't really that common and certainly don't apply in the case of Barry (my daughter is in similar situation, which is why I know about the requirements). IF he was born abroad, they have 18 years to file the Consular Report of Birth Abroad and they can amend it at any time. Failure to file the Consular Report may create legal complications for proof of citizenship, but they are not insurmountable.
New Executive Orders from the Kenyan - BjornF16 - 04-24-2013
montana Wrote:This was a good reply and you didn't have to use Moron, racist or ridiculous to force your point. :]
Yes I agree…the use of the term "moron" was aimed at no one in particular. I apologize.