LR1955 Wrote:IM3:

Thankyou again for the info.

Doctrine for you guys to put the safety on between targets in an array?

No time standard?

Just asking. Even if there was a time standard, the final results would be the same but it would be a lot closer. More guys would miss one shot out of nine, even on semi, when under a time constraint.

A unit I was in actually had a couple of M-3's. One thing I can say about them is that they are not prone to malfunction. The thing breaks down into six parts if I remember, and the bolt weighs about as much as the rest of it. Stick your finger in a hole in the bolt, pull back until it locks, point and blast. The hotter it got, the faster its rate of fire. Guess all those 'tight tolerances' needed to expand and open up a bit for it to really go. A fellow is SOL big time if he loses the wire stock. No way a guy will get more than ten rounds in that mag by hand without that little loading thing on the stock. Something tells me that the sights on one of them aren't really made to do anything other than show a guy the thing is pointed away from him.

LR-55

imaguy3 Wrote:This particular drill with multiple targets had no time limit... rather you were trying to best your time and each others time, essentially going as fast as you could go while ensuring shot placement. The time element was the competition of trying to be fastest. If you failed the shot placement part you didn't get your time ("no go"), so this also adds an incentive to ensure shot placement because you want your time so you can be competitive. This particular drill incorporated safety/selector manipulation as well between targets, specifically b/c it was just an aspect of the drill for us to get used to flipping it all the way around.

On patrol though we teach safety on until you've decided to engage a target.

Prevents tragic things like this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Aiyana_Jones "According to reports, seconds after entering the house, Weekley fired the fatal shot.[21] He pushed his way inside, protected by a ballistic shield. Weekley claimed Aiyana Jones' paternal grandmother, Mertilla Jones, attempted to slap his MP5 submachine gun, causing it to fire. The bullet struck Aiyana killing her. Weekley stated, "A woman inside grabbed my gun. It fired. The bullet hit a child."[22][23]"

Rumor has it that at the time their swat team was trained to keep their MP5 pre-selected as they made entry so it "was ready"...

There's another case where an Officer is standing there watching suspects on the floor when he gets startled and fires his rifle, b/c it wasn't on safe, striking a kid... but for the life of me I can't find it anymore.

Be honest, time yourself from a low ready position with your rifle on safety. On the buzzer bring it up on target and manipulate the safety at the same time (because you've made the decision to fire) and time yourself to get first shot off. Do the same with the safety already off. Do this 10 times each and take the average. If someone trains with the manipulation there is no meaningful difference.

VASCAR2 Wrote:Glad to see Az is still shooting pistols at 25 yards. In my area many departments quit going past 15 yards with handguns. I’ll admit 5.56/233 carbines are more common with LE in my area. I think teaching people to shoot small targets (bullseye) at 25 yards plus is beneficial.


I saw where a Company is releasing a binary trigger for a Glock 17. This particular trigger system uses a selector similar to a Glock 18. I’d sure want a good back stop and no one else on the range with some people trying to shoot a Glock 17 with a binary trigger.

VASCAR2 Wrote:Glad to see Az is still shooting pistols at 25 yards. In my area many departments quit going past 15 yards with handguns. I’ll admit 5.56/233 carbines are more common with LE in my area. I think teaching people to shoot small targets (bullseye) at 25 yards plus is beneficial.

imaguy3 Wrote:Not to totally derail... but we are currently in the middle of doing an Agency wide transition to red dots on pistols. This is like cheating. Even our mediocre shooters are easily engaging steel torso targets at 50-100 yrds.

VASCAR2 Wrote:Franklin Armory is the manufacturer of the Glock binary trigger. FA had examples at the range media day at shot show. There are a few videos online demonstrating the Glock Binary trgger. Here is a link to one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBGhboXs5kM

LR1955 Wrote:IG:

What dot sight?

LR