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Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - Klem - 10-27-2021
Eye_guy Wrote:What are my other options? Something that will be almost certain to deliver 3/4 MOA.
Lilja 319 or 740 - 2.4lbs - Olympic grade barrels - $510
I don't recommend carbon fibre, or lighter than Lilja's profiles. Thin barrels don't lend themselves to tight groups as they heat up. Carbon fiber does not have a perfect reputation in the shooting community.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - nodakjohns - 10-27-2021
StoneHendge Wrote:Do your groups pattern? Meaning are 2 or 3 close and then 2 or 3 close somewhere else, etc? I have had that happen more than once with Aero mounts. The zero would bounce around in a 1-2 MOA box. I don't use them anymore. The good news is that there's a very robust market for them on eBay.
Wish i had seen this earlier. I have a swfa 2.5-10x32 in an aero mount and was wondering why my groups are so big. Need to get that switched out and see if that helps.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - Kosh65 - 10-27-2021
First off . Im not an AR shooter. Im a bolt gun guy. But as many have mentioned, the barrel is usually the key to building a great shooting rifle. And as lazyengineer wrote crown, chamber and throat are what matters most. The twist rate (1:8 or 1:9) should be more dependent on what bullets you are wanting to use. But IMO is probably moot.
I built my Rem700 Grendel with a 24, 1:8. My 6.5-06 Ackley is a 24 1:9.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - Klem - 10-27-2021
Kosh,
I agree with you
I shoot 6.5x47 in competition and have mostly 1:8 barrels, but also a 1:8.5 barrel - This for shooting the 130gn AR Hybrids (Berger).
Krieger offers 6.5barrels for Grendel in a wide range: 1:7, 1:7.5, 1:8, 1:8.5, and 1:9. Lilja only offers 6.5G drop-ins in 1:8. Shilen, however only offers its Grendel drop-ins in 1:9.
Where I am coming from is the need to have a decent barrel. Lets be honest, the OP's problem is not down to different twist rates in an acceptable range of twists and bullets.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - biodsl - 10-28-2021
nodakjohns Wrote:Wish i had seen this earlier. I have a swfa 2.5-10x32 in an aero mount and was wondering why my groups are so big. Need to get that switched out and see if that helps.
Please post the results. I'd like another data point on this. I have the same setup on a 5.56. Haven't shot it enough yet to know if there's a problem.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - myrifle - 10-28-2021
Let's also not forget OP is shooting a ar rifle and not a bolt action.
The ar action needs top be held and handled during the fireing operation much diffrent then a bolt action.
That to the side OP your best bet is to pony up the cash for a custom barrel from Mark at PF.
His barrels will straight up shoot, I have had several of his barrels and have yet to get one that with good marksmanship technique and sound handloads could make 5 shot 1/2 moa groups.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - keystone183 - 10-28-2021
Eye_guy Wrote:One of the primary reasons I went with a Ballistic Advantage barrel is weight. That particular barrrel weighs 33 ounces. If I ultimately end up making a change I want to use a 20 barrel and keep it at or under 2 lbs. a Proof barrel would get me there, but its outside my budget. What are my other options? Something that will be almost certain to deliver 3/4 MOA.
Certain in your budget? Not sure. I have had very good luck with several 'budget' brand barrels. I have seen both Faxon and BA barrels shoot sub MOA consistently with several different factory loadings. A faxon or two i've seen shoot consistent .5moa with a factory load it liked. I have also had several more expensive barrels, including lilja, not preform nearly as well as i would have hoped, for the money.
I am almost to the point now that i'd rather buy 3 or 4 budget barrels, find the best shooting one, and resell the others. And then be money ahead of having a very expensive blank chambered and then disappoint me.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - nodakjohns - 10-28-2021
biodsl Wrote:Please post the results. I'd like another data point on this. I have the same setup on a 5.56. Haven't shot it enough yet to know if there's a problem.
I will start a new thread when i have more data. As of now my daughter is using it as is for deer hunting. I hope to get some range time this year hopefully.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - Klem - 10-28-2021
keystone183 Wrote:I am almost to the point now that i'd rather buy 3 or 4 budget barrels, find the best shooting one, and resell the others. And then be money ahead of having a very expensive blank chambered and then disappoint me.
Key,
I agree with that logic, providing the cost adds up.
I once had a conversation with a national Bench Rest champion who is also a gunsmith. He was talking about how international competitive shooters buy 10 barrels for the season and end up keeping two. Another gunsmith who also competes admitted he buys his barrels in bulk and spins them in a lathe looking for shadows down the pipe. He keeps the brightest ones (least shadows) for himself and sells the rest to his customers.
A Faxon might be $330 whereas a Lilja is $510. Even if you bought them one at a time rather than all at once, what are the odds of getting a Faxon that shoots, or a Lilja that doesn't? No doubt there's ammunition, time and frustration in that as well. I don't have the definitive answer but I imagine best-barrels win as there's not a huge difference in cost. But, if Faxons were $100 each I'd be lining up outside their shop waiting for them to open.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - Eye_guy - 10-28-2021
Yeah, Ive definitely seen pictures of groupings from high end barrels that I would not have been pleased with. Then you hear about someone with a PSA shooting 1/2 MOA. A guy gets lucky every now and then I guess.
Weve got rifle deer season in a few weeks. After that Im going to take the upper apart and do everything I can to rule out everything but the barrel. Ill report back on my progress.
I do have one faxon barrel and have not been impressed.
Ive certainly looked pretty hard at the Criterions and Kreigers at PF. Ive heard good things. A criterion might be doable on my budget. Seems to be the difference in 3/4 MOA and 1/2 MOA between the Crierion and Kreiger. But, results seem varied so it just further muddies the water for me trying to make decision.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - Kosh65 - 10-29-2021
Could come down to whos cutting the chamber, on what day of the week and the quality of the reamer.
Ive had 2 Krieger barrels (still have 1) and the better shooter of the two was chambered by a private smith. The other was done by Krieger right in Richfield.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - tdbru - 10-29-2021
EG,
i am working on a light weight longer barreled upper. waiting on rings as i discovered lighter weight setup than what i was originally using for mount and scope. back to story, the tube is a 20" RLGS 4150 Nitride Faxon Gunner profile 1-8 twist. a "rack grade" barrel. it was the longest lightest one i could get at the time. among several factory loads and handloads worst was 2.5 MOA and best was 1/2 MOA. I think with budget barrels, or some call them rack grade barrels, it's a dice roll if you get a hummer or a bummer. I'm sure with a Brux or Kreiger they will turn out great. i wanted a hunting AR that didn't weight 18lbs. like some of the match ARs do. that faxon gunner profile looks pretty skinny, yet, with the right load, and there can be lots of time and components to find that one or more "right load(s)", it groups as well as i can shoot it. I too met a competitor that bought 10 blanks at a time (he had his own lathe & tooling setup) and would fit and chamber them all and then go group each one. he kept the ones that would group, and recycled the ones that wouldn't. he was shooting enough each weekend that he went through 2 to 3 barrels a year. So even with high end blanks (what he was buying) not all are hummers, but most were. He averaged about 87% hummers. My light weight upper is no match rifle, but, for hunting coyotes and deer out to ranges I will use the 6.5 Grendel to, it shoots acceptably and I am the limiting factor, not the rig. if i had bought and had fitted a Brux, i'm sure the # of factory and handloads that would go under 1MOA would have been LOTS higher, perhaps even all the combinations I have tried so far. but i have enough successful combinations that it meets the intent for me. you may have similar results if you work with what you have before springing for a new tube. Of course if you decide to go for a match grade barrel right off, there's no problem there either, and the odds of success are much higher. i enjoy tinkering with rifles and handloads and finding the right combination, for me, is part of the fun. Others don't have the time or tinkering interest and want to go straight to great, and the odds favor a top tier barrel by a wide margin for that group of folks. good luck, i'm sure you'll get it sorted out.
-tdbru
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - Eye_guy - 11-16-2021
Update.
I swapped out my Aero scope mount for a warne. I went the range after work with my daughter before deer season. I shot 4 rounds at 100 and 4 more at 200 getting the scope zeroed. Those 8 rounds were in the realm of 1/2-3/4 MOA. While 8 rounds isnt definite proof just yet it seems likely I may have a real shooter on my hands and it was the Aero mount. I had torqued it per spec and used blue loctite to ensure it didnt come loose.
Deer season was last weekend. My daughter was using the Grendel and it stacked up 4 deer all between 225 to 275 yards. 3 crumped in place, one made it 10 yards.
Now that season is behind us Ill be hitting the range again soon
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - Klem - 11-17-2021
Eye,
Sounds like it's working out.
I take it you were adjusting the scope for zero at 100 (4-shots), and then shot one 4rd group at 200?
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - biodsl - 11-17-2021
Eye_guy Wrote:Update.
I swapped out my Aero scope mount for a warne. I went the range after work with my daughter before deer season. I shot 4 rounds at 100 and 4 more at 200 getting the scope zeroed. Those 8 rounds were in the realm of 1/2-3/4 MOA. While 8 rounds isnt definite proof just yet it seems likely I may have a real shooter on my hands and it was the Aero mount.
BlogSarge Wrote:Hi Eye_guy
Start with your scope mount...
Looks like BlogSarge called it in post#2!
Give your daughter our congratulations. That's some shooting.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - Eye_guy - 11-17-2021
Klem Wrote:Eye,
Sounds like it's working out.
I take it you were adjusting the scope for zero at 100 (4-shots), and then shot one 4rd group at 200?
I typically 0 at 200 yards. I fired four rounds at 100, made slight adjustments and then fired 4 more at 200. I use my turrets to compensate for wind and drop on longer shots.
Accurizing a Grendel - Accuracy Advice - Eye_guy - 11-17-2021
biodsl Wrote:Looks like BlogSarge called it in post#2!
Give your daughter our congratulations. That's some shooting.
Will do, thanks!