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CZ vs Howa - Jays375 - 10-05-2021
Pine Tree was a score!
CZ vs Howa - riuma - 10-13-2021
Jays375 Wrote:Pine Tree was a score!
Glad you found one. You got the suppressor -ready?
I took my American out last Saturday with 85 grain Sierras over H335. Great accuracy. After deer season I will re-zero for this load to use on coyote and similar creatures. ~Riuma
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CZ vs Howa - Rufjustis - 10-13-2021
Still waiting for mine.. Just saw your post, ricsmall and riuma, I'll look them up and give them a try. Thanks for the info.
CZ vs Howa - Stinky Coyote - 10-13-2021
cz is the winner over the Howa by long margin for me also, have owned both, we care about predator hunting as much as big game hunting so we love the Grendel and we have migrated to the Ruger ranch, it beats them both for a variety of reasons for me and I was a long time cz fan, the Howa's I'll never own another
the cz's wear in, never out, they benefit from bedding, action smoothing, and a little loctite on one of the trigger screws (the one for creep) so it doesn't back out and allow the creep back, mine I was able to get to 2 3/4 lb pull and maybe 98% creep free, so they start out more money and then more money and time in smithing to get em really dialled in, mine was more like solid moa average with Hornady black on factory barrel even bedded but a different story when I put 24" proof carbon on it...eitherway you can put a Ruger ranch together in your underwear in the kitchen and it needs nothing extra and you get 10 round mags...mine averages 3/4 moa same ammo out to 500 yards for 3 shot groups, Hornady black factory ammo, impressed enough to have got two more ranches for builds for my boys, we've gone mdt chassis route on all three, but it wasn't for lack of trying with the other two platforms...cz's can be sweet with dollars and some effort, the Howa likely could too but you need even more dollars as you need new stock, new bottom metal that replaces their horsesh@t magazine system, new trigger to ditch that awful two stage with crappy blade feel and the crappy safety lever...just the raw heavy metal of the Howa is any good, action(without trigger), barrel, bolt...so if you like projects get the Howa or cz...if you want the working mans winner...get the Ruger
CZ vs Howa - Harpoon1 - 10-13-2021
And Timney makes a decent adjustable replacement trigger for the Ruger. About $150. Money well spent IMO. I have really grown to hate the Savage style safety trigger and all their knockoffs. Just a whole bunch of nothing! IMO
CZ vs Howa - riuma - 10-13-2021
Stinky Coyote Wrote:cz is the winner over the Howa by long margin for me also, have owned both, we care about predator hunting as much as big game hunting so we love the Grendel and we have migrated to the Ruger ranch, it beats them both for a variety of reasons for me and I was a long time cz fan, the Howa's I'll never own another
the cz's wear in, never out, they benefit from bedding, action smoothing, and a little loctite on one of the trigger screws (the one for creep) so it doesn't back out and allow the creep back, mine I was able to get to 2 3/4 lb pull and maybe 98% creep free, so they start out more money and then more money and time in smithing to get em really dialled in, mine was more like solid moa average with Hornady black on factory barrel even bedded but a different story when I put 24" proof carbon on it...eitherway you can put a Ruger ranch together in your underwear in the kitchen and it needs nothing extra and you get 10 round mags...mine averages 3/4 moa same ammo out to 500 yards for 3 shot groups, Hornady black factory ammo, impressed enough to have got two more ranches for builds for my boys, we've gone mdt chassis route on all three, but it wasn't for lack of trying with the other two platforms...cz's can be sweet with dollars and some effort, the Howa likely could too but you need even more dollars as you need new stock, new bottom metal that replaces their horsesh@t magazine system, new trigger to ditch that awful two stage with crappy blade feel and the crappy safety lever...just the raw heavy metal of the Howa is any good, action(without trigger), barrel, bolt...so if you like projects get the Howa or cz...if you want the working mans winner...get the Ruger
I have written elsewhere: My newest CZ 527 American 7,62x39 came from the factory with Glass bedding, a steel bedding block and was pillar bedded. Unlike my 4 year old Grendel that required pillar bedding, this rifle required nothing and produces half MOA from the start with my handloads.
I have the Ruger Grendel and it is a shooter, but nothing like my Grendel American or Varmint.~Riuma
CZ vs Howa - Old Bob - 10-14-2021
I recently got a 6.5 Grendel Howa mini 20" heavy barrel rifle. If I would have waited a few weeks, I might have gotten a Ruger American ranch rifle instead. Not being clairvoyant, I had no idea they would be available again. Oh well...
The Howa... eh... lots of post purchase stuff needed.
Yeah, the trigger guard/magazine bottom is horse crap. My instruction book said 55 inch# for the action screws. Being part dumb-ass (I shoulda known better) I torqued the screws at that setting. SNAP! The rear hole split(invective uttered)! Called Legacy & talked to a very nice lady & explained my screw-up. She said she would get me a new guard in the mail ASAP... FREE! She put me on hold to ask a gunsmith what the torque value should be. When she returned, she said it should be no higher than 35 inch#. One thing I noticed that is an improvement on the trigger guard is the magazine release lever. It's shorter than the original & has serrations on its face for finger traction. It should keep accidental mag releases at a minimum.Not really wanting to put on that plastic turd again, I called Wayne at Oregon gunsmithing to see If I could get one of his trigger guards. He told me he didn't have any ready to ship 'cause he didn't have any magazine springs. That's the only out-sourced part of his trigger guard & he was still waiting for them from his supplier. Besides that, it's deer hunting season & they would be shut down for a couple of weeks. He asked for a phone number & said he would call when he had assembled guards.
Meanwhile, I ordered a DIP bottom. Way better part than the OEM! I also got DIP's mag release lever. What a PITA to install. I made a slave pin to hold the lever & spring together which made the job easier to do.
One of the first things I noticed after unboxing my rifle, the barrel was just touching the left side of the stock barrel channel. I loosened the stock screws & stuck a 1/16th" thick piece cardboard between the barrel & stock & re-tightened the screws. I had barrel clearance but it was still on the left side. Doubled up the piece of cardboard & tried it again. The barrel was still a little left but closer to center. Eh! Gotta bed this thing!
So... with the new DIP bottom & the stock bedded, everything looks GTG. Almost! When installing the magazine, it would hang up slightly. If I put a little forward pressure on it, it would go right in. What I noticed; on the inside of the action was a slight protrusion the magazine would hit if I didn't use the forward pressure. The protrusion looks to be only about 1/32nd of a inch but it's enough to cause a hang-up. I cut a shallow slot in the back of the magazine. Now installing it is silky smooth. I don't have to think about pushing the mag forward when installing it. It drops free easily as well.
I don't mind projects like this. It's kinda fun... sorta.
CZ vs Howa - grayfox - 10-14-2021
Haven't owned a cz, tried the ruger a couple times, couldn't get it to feed reliably for me. It shot well and I had handloads for it (and chassis), but...
Went back to the howa, 20" HB (like Bob's), and got the mdt chassis (love these chassies!). I got the barreled action so didn't have to mess with plastic (this time). Brownells gives me a discount on these actions. DIP is a nice add but for the mdt of course, not needed.
The mag release is a much shorter lever, it hides up in the chassis metal and is much stiffer - so much so that sometimes I need fingers from both hands to get it to release. so it's not going to drop out in the field. The round feed is butter smooth.
I have a VG6 6.5 brake on it and a strike eagle scope.
I also have handloads for this one, one is the sst with AR comp. another is the 120 gold dot, with ArC. Both at ~2511.
It's going with me on my deer hunt.
Anyway I know one works for some guys and the other does for others, but as for this howa it is a good one for me. In the right hands it takes a back seat to nobody.
Rarely have I gotten a rifle that shot the hdy black all that good... I just got it for the brass mostly. Handloads are a different story.
CZ vs Howa - Oso Polaris - 10-15-2021
When I bought my Howa Mini barrelled action from Brownells (2017/2018) I thought I would drop it into a MDT chassis. When I started to move forward on the project I saw all of the reviews/issues with magazine failures and no customer support... I put the box back in the closet and decided I wouldn't bother until someone came up with solutions. I really hoped and waited for someone to come up with an aftermarket replacement magazine or a way to use the E-lander metal mags. Nope....... Finally B&C introduced their stock and Oregunsmith came up with workable solution to bypass/eliminate the failures of Howa's magazine design and release lever placement.
Howa Mini is too much work needed to just get it to where it should be operating straight out of the box factory rifle. I want to hate mine, but it shoots well. If someone were to offer me their CZ 527 Grendel then I wouldn't hesitate swapping them... and that I guess is the final analysis.
Riuma - Those are nice factory improvements.... and a removeable metal magazine. You got me wanting another CZ.
Grayfox - how have you not owned a CZ?! Christmas is just around the corner!!!
CZ vs Howa - grayfox - 10-15-2021
Don't need it.
Here are a couple pics showing (top) my current baby, with the mdt chassis and the release lever (already installed from MDT, see how it pretty much hides up in the aluminum); b) lower left, current howa lower plastic with a much shorter release lever, better angle and tougher spring, c) the old style lever (much longer) in a DIP lower metal that I have. Click on it to enlarge, to see more detail.
So the current model is a better release (still plastic body however), and the mdt is even more so. So I didn't swap it out when installing the chassis, I'm keeping the mdt arrangement.
Not a howa "fan" per se, but I appreciate the adjustments they and MDT made to the design. And it shoots just fine. I also got a bolt handle big knob and epoxied it on, makes it even easier to cycle.
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CZ vs Howa - Old Bob - 10-15-2021
grayfox Wrote:Don't need it.
Here are a couple pics showing (top) my current baby, with the mdt chassis and the release lever (already installed from MDT, see how it pretty much hides up in the aluminum); b) lower left, current howa lower plastic with a much shorter release lever, better angle and tougher spring, c) the old style lever (much longer) in a DIP lower metal that I have. Click on it to enlarge, to see more detail.
So the current model is a better release (still plastic body however), and the mdt is even more so. So I didn't swap it out when installing the chassis, I'm keeping the mdt arrangement.
Not a howa "fan" per se, but I appreciate the adjustments they and MDT made to the design. And it shoots just fine. I also got a bolt handle big knob and epoxied it on, makes it even easier to cycle.
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Is this the big bolt knob you put in your Howa mini?
https://www.tacticalworks.com/howa-tactical-bolt-knob.html
CZ vs Howa - grayfox - 10-16-2021
It is, or one like it. Tactical bolt knob...
I got it from midwest gun works... 24 bucks I think.
you can try the rubber ring that comes with it or do an epoxy to keep it on tight.
Love it on the handle!
CZ vs Howa - myrifle - 10-16-2021
From what the OP stated he wanted the rifle for and have been a owner of both actions in grendel.
The howa is going to be the better rifle for his needs.
Live my cz grendel and while I have no issues with running the bolt and feeding. It will never be as smooth feeding as the howa.
Also the simple and not overly priced up grade to a dip bottom metal and mag release for the howa, makes it that much more a step up over the cz grendel for the OP's needs.
Now that said, for a deer/hog rifle that doesnt need to be ran as fast as possible and a target playing rifle. The how will never trump the cz for speed(longer barrel versions available in the cz) the trigger is simply amazing and there are aftermarket options for a cut down nearly flush fit mag for the cz.
Also the cz's metal mag is capable of being windowed and running 4 rounds at a load length the howa cant come close to touching and those allowing more speed for those long reach loads.
But for a fast pointing/swinging game gun over hounds the howa has the cz beat hands down.
CZ vs Howa - riuma - 10-16-2021
I don't hunt hogs here in Montana but i do hunt deer, and I like to hunt them with my CZ Grendel American. I don't have any problems whatsoever in that venue. It shoulders well. shoots extremely well with any bullet weight between 85 and 125 grains. I also have the Varmint model. Superb accuracy but a little long with a can on the end.
I have the Ruger American as well. It is accurate and I can kick it around without feeling guilty.
The local Ranch supply store has Howas. I looked hard at the 20" Howa as a short gun. The clerk reported a few complaints they had received regarding feeding. I held back and revisited this forums topics about Howas. Feeding issues. Rebarreling. Accuracy issues. I may yet buy a 20 inch Howa to see for myself but I won't dump a huge amount of money into it if it doesn't shoot; I pay high dollar for the CZs but they shoot well right off the rack. I don't need a cheap rifle money pit.
I took my American out last evening. Sierra Pro Hunter 120's over a stiff charge of SW Match Rifle shot half inch. (10 shot average of 2688 fps) The Sierra 85 grain HP over H335 shot a half inch. I like Howas actions but as the old saying goes, "The only interesting rifle is and accurate one." I think I have that criteria covered. ~Riuma
CZ vs Howa - JSH - 10-23-2021
I have had a half dozen CZ 527s. Some shot great, others shot no better than any other off the rack rifle. All but one are gone now and it is at the local GS for sale.
I replaced them with Howa minis and have not regretted it any at all. Yeah I have tinkered with everyone of them,stocks,chassis, bedding etc. I bought my minis before the price jumped up so blasted high. Bought two for what I sold one CZ for.
Smooth action, smooth feeding (so smooth I actually opened the bolt to make sure it had picked up a cartridge) positive extraction. Trigger, my smith did his spin on modification and it is as good as any tuned Remington trigger.
Accuracy, I will shoot side by side with a CZ with no fear.
CZ vs Howa - riuma - 10-23-2021
JSH Wrote:I have had a half dozen CZ 527s. Some shot great, others shot no better than any other off the rack rifle. All but one are gone now and it is at the local GS for sale.
I replaced them with Howa minis and have not regretted it any at all. Yeah I have tinkered with everyone of them, stocks,chassis, bedding etc. I bought my minis before the price jumped up so blasted high. Bought two for what I sold one CZ for.
Smooth action, smooth feeding (so smooth I actually opened the bolt to make sure it had picked up a cartridge) positive extraction. Trigger, my smith did his spin on modification and it is as good as any tuned Remington trigger.
Accuracy, I will shoot side by side with a CZ with no fear.
That's encouragement to pick up the 20" Grendel at the local Ranch Store. Every time I handle the gun I put it back. Magazine fit always gets me edgy. Not as bad as my Ruger, but close second. Did you modify your magazine well or was it not an issue? The store here has sent back two for feeding problems. I wish Howa would put in a fixed magazine and do away with the plastic rattle box.
As to accuracy. I have never owned a CZ that did not give superlative accuracy with handloads. I shot some Hornady Black from my CZ American Grendel when I first got it and it was minute of caffeine. I have shot Hornady Steel, PPU and Belom through my three 7.62x39's and they shot well to varying degrees. Handloads were another story entirely. I have 204, 2x 22 Hornet, 223, 300 AAC, 7.62x39 x 3, and 6.5 Grendel x 2. All are exceptionally accurate with my handloads. The only issue I ever had was misfires with the 300AAC which I traced to using RCBS Small Based dies. When I went back to my Lee dies the problem went away. I have had three M 1500 HOWA centerfires and all were accurate. I gave them to family. (223, 270,3006)
Anyhow. I will go to the Ranch Store this morning and look at the Howa again. It will be hard to get by the "Bird in the hand ..." thing. ~Riuma
CZ vs Howa - grayfox - 10-23-2021
Magazine fit in a howa has never been an issue with me. Smooth feeding always.
And now that they have modded the release it's fine. Rugers otoh, with the AR mag, I could never get it to feed reliably, and only 123 grainers if at all. Their little rotary mags were ok and fed ok, but seemed flimsy so you had to be careful.
But their AR well/feeding setup........ 50-50 at best. So I went back to a howa.
Except for my 300 bo (howa), I put them in a chassis b/c I like that fit-up and ability to get a good cheek weld out of it.
Now that plastic bottom "stuff" isn't great but fixable, which I always bake into any howa plans I've had. DIP, chassis, other guys' fixes, take your pick. And several tweaks available for the trigger, which I've tuned down to a bit less than 2.5#. The biggest accuracy issue (which isn't huge but it is there) is me, when I'm on my game it's 0.5-0.75. When not shooting as well it's 1.0-1.25"/100 yds.
As a hunting gun it's fine. If I want to go 300-600+ yds I pull out something else.
CZ vs Howa - Old Bob - 10-23-2021
My Howa mini came with the HACT trigger installed. I was amazed how crisp it is. After a slight take-up, it snaps off without any creep at all. The over-travel is barely noticeable. And it's consistent too! Five straight pulls on the trigger with my pull-gauge were exactly 3lbs! The Geissele trigger on my 6.5 Grendel AR is almost as consistent, but not quite. Not enough to matter though.
When I bought this rifle I was thinking I'd probably have to replace the trigger with one from Timney. Not now!
I did have to replace the trigger on my Howa M1500 .308 Win. with a Timney trigger about 10 years ago. The original trigger on that rifle was a mushy turd.
CZ vs Howa - SDguy - 10-24-2021
Jays375 Wrote:Pine Tree was a score!
Hope you like it as well as I have liked mine. I had two CZ 527's in 6.5 Grendel this for roughly 6 years now. this spring I swiped out barrels on my first one that was a 7.629 x 35 re-barreled to one of the CSS Grendel barrels & now supports a 22 inch - Pacnor chambered in 6mm ARC. As a coyote gun I feel the 6mm ARC is the better cartridge. As a deer rifle the Grendel may be a smidgen better suited to that task. Never the less I intend to be taking my rifle deer this year with a CZ527 chambered in 6mm ARC.
CZ vs Howa - Jays375 - 10-24-2021
Very pleased how well the rifle shoots.Inatalled a Vortex Diamondback scope.Also purchased a Glades Armory tactical bolt handle.The farthest shot will be around 150 yards.Most will be 100 yards and under.Will be loading up Noaler 90gr Varmageddons The rifle shot Hornady American Gunner 123 grain ammo really well.So I suspect handliaded ammo will be better.