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+--- Thread: < 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? (/showthread.php?tid=21942)
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Tipsymutt - 09-07-2020
My Satern 18 incher is a great performer. Took a while to get but im happy with it.
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - FLshooter - 09-07-2020
Ive owned several barrels from different manufacturers. Criterion is a good entry level mid range barrel. But like Klem said Bartlein Krieger or Lilja. I did OK with other manufacturers. My criterion can do sub moa.But, once I got my Bartlein 24 inch heavy barrel,I never looked back.Accurate and consistent.shoots everything well.
I ended up getting another 1/2 doz Bartlein barrels in other calibers for my other ARs within the following months.Once you get a quality barrel, you will never want to go back. And in the long run it will save you money on ammo(No breakins)time and agrivation. And not only does a Bartlein shoot better, it shoots better longer. Quality steel.
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Dack Janiels - 09-09-2020
I think Im gonna sell a spare parts rifle and buy this barrel for my build https://craddockprecision.com/6-5-grendel-bartlein/ edit to add: SDM-R profile with .750 gas block and 1:8 twist
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - am4966 - 09-15-2020
Compass Lake Engineering also has great prices on Bartlien n Krieger barrels. They have a good rep too.
Mark at PF makes a great barrel but his shipping times have always been a deterrence for me. But if your in no hurry
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - mateba - 09-18-2020
These barrels are using not tried and true technology. They are using cutting edge developments. https://tacomhq.com/structured-barrels/ They suggest most inaccuracy is a result of barrel harmonics. Their barrels are showing interesting results like; <1/2 moa accuracy across load development and manufactured ammunition. They say this is due to their harmonically deadened barrel tech which negates developing loads around an individual barrel's harmonic nodes. There are some other interesting things about this barrel tech but the 1/2" accuracy across all loads stood out. Basically they are only focusing on shot-to-shot ammunition consistency and no longer focusing on the sweet spot discovered in load development.
I would not spend this kind of money on a barrel. I would spend this kind of money on firearms. That being said, if I had 2000yard range...
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Dino11 - 09-23-2020
I know this is a 6.5 Grendel site, I was considering building one.
But I got into the 6mmARC instead. Doing a lot of homework and weighing the differences is why I went this route.
It just made since, better accuracy, longer range, and longer barrel life. They say the life expectancy of one of these matches that of .223.
Now for the downfall of it, right now you can't hardly buy any thing gun related. I was fortunate and jumped on board right before this pandimic.
I am set on one having 3 rifles, having reloading supplies to last me for God who knows how long.
I have an Odin Works HBAR barrel that shoots .5 MOA without even trying very hard. It is just remarkable how well this round shoots, and not really effected by wind drift, and the bullet drop is very predictable.
I was at the range the other day and these two gentlemen were simply amazed that I could hit an 8" steel plate repeatedly with no misses @ 600 yards. With no doubt an AR15. Then I moved over to the 200 yard plate and took 5 shots in under 10 seconds and hit every one of them. That old man said thats some shooting son. I told him that I was taking my time, the scope never left the target. He said he could never do that with his Grendel.
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - A5BLASTER - 09-23-2020
Dino11 Wrote:I know this is a 6.5 Grendel site, I was considering building one.
But I got into the 6mmARC instead. Doing a lot of homework and weighing the differences is why I went this route.
It just made since, better accuracy, longer range, and longer barrel life. They say the life expectancy of one of these matches that of .223.
Now for the downfall of it, right now you can't hardly buy any thing gun related. I was fortunate and jumped on board right before this pandimic.
I am set on one having 3 rifles, having reloading supplies to last me for God who knows how long.
I have an Odin Works HBAR barrel that shoots .5 MOA without even trying very hard. It is just remarkable how well this round shoots, and not really effected by wind drift, and the bullet drop is very predictable.
I was at the range the other day and these two gentlemen were simply amazed that I could hit an 8" steel plate repeatedly with no misses @ 600 yards. With no doubt an AR15. Then I moved over to the 200 yard plate and took 5 shots in under 10 seconds and hit every one of them. That old man said thats some shooting son. I told him that I was taking my time, the scope never left the target. He said he could never do that with his Grendel.
In all honesty, there isn't enough difference between the 2 at 600 are less to worrie much about.
As far as barrel life goes, as long as your handloads dont go over pressure the 6mm version will have less throat life them the 6.5mm .
I read that post on 6mmarc fourm. That was some fine shooting for sure. But honestly if you would have been shooting against someone who had their rifle and load dialed in and had some skill at that range. The results would have been different.
And your arc is not more accurate because it shoots a 6mm bullet and not a 6.5mm bullet. Barrel quiality, load quality, scope/mount quality, trigger, postion, overall rifle build quality and shooter skill has more to do with that then bullet diameter.
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - grayfox - 09-23-2020
I got 'em both, shoot 'em both, and wanna learn from anyone who's a better shooter than I am.
That's why I like this forum (and the 6Arc!!) for sure. Plenty of guys to learn from.
Good job to anyone who can hit like that, whether 200 or 600!
Or 1000.
I need more trigger time.
I need a million bucks!!! (not really but I wouldn't turn it down!!!)
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - StoneHendge - 09-23-2020
Dino11 Wrote:It just made since, better accuracy, longer range, and longer barrel life. They say the life expectancy of one of these matches that of .223.
I don't know where this rumour is coming from. Neck the same case down and you increase overbore. Rule of thumb is 2500 for a 6.5 CM and and 2000 for 6 CM etc., so......
But you forgot to mention substantially reduced recoil
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Dino11 - 09-23-2020
A5BLASTER Wrote:In all honesty, there isn't enough difference between the 2 at 600 are less to worrie much about.
As far as barrel life goes, as long as your handloads dont go over pressure the 6mm version will have less throat life them the 6.5mm .
I read that post on 6mmarc fourm. That was some fine shooting for sure. But honestly if you would have been shooting against someone who had their rifle and load dialed in and had some skill at that range. The results would have been different.
And your arc is not more accurate because it shoots a 6mm bullet and not a 6.5mm bullet. Barrel quiality, load quality, scope/mount quality, trigger, postion, overall rifle build quality and shooter skill has more to do with that then bullet diameter.
Your right their is not much difference in them. except that the 6mm edges out almost everywhere. And one of the reason the DoD adopted the 6ARC was because of extended barrel life. I still may do a Grendel, I have all the parts except the barrel. And I don't buy junk barrels.
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Brazz04 - 09-23-2020
How would the 6mm ARC have better barrel life? Seems case capacity would be very similar to the grendel, just going through a smaller bore. That would equate to less barrel life correct? I have seen 3k rounds as an estimate for barrel life in the ARC on other forums
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Dino11 - 09-24-2020
I guess another question is
How do they get 10,000 plus rounds through a 5.56? It has an even smaller bore.
I have a 5.56 that has 8,000 rounds through it, and it still shoots good.
The little 55 grain pill is going 3,000+ FPS
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Brazz04 - 09-24-2020
Necking down to 6mm can only cause faster throat wear unless Im reading every article incorrectly? In reality Grendel has less overbore than a 5.56, and the 6mmARC has about the same as 5.56, so neither should wear out quickly at all.
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - mdram - 09-24-2020
Dino11 Wrote:I guess another question is
How do they get 10,000 plus rounds through a 5.56? It has an even smaller bore.
I have a 5.56 that has 8,000 rounds through it, and it still shoots good.
The little 55 grain pill is going 3,000+ FPS
barrel material difference?
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Lemonaid - 09-24-2020
Dino11 Wrote:I guess another question is
How do they get 10,000 plus rounds through a 5.56? It has an even smaller bore.
I have a 5.56 that has 8,000 rounds through it, and it still shoots good.
The little 55 grain pill is going 3,000+ FPS
Read about this from Glen D. Zediker's book handloading for competition (page 188), boiled down its the heavy for caliber bullets that cause the most throat erosion due to shorter pressure time curve, "A heavier bullet gets started slower, the pressure behind it is confined to build and peak in a shorter distance."
A 5.56 has less powder behind it pushing a smaller weight bullet than the Grendel or 6ARC so less erosion. I'm not informed about barrel life of a fast twist 5.56 using the heavy bullets but it should be less.
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Kswhitetails - 09-24-2020
Dino11 Wrote:I guess another question is
How do they get 10,000 plus rounds through a 5.56? It has an even smaller bore.
I have a 5.56 that has 8,000 rounds through it, and it still shoots good.
The little 55 grain pill is going 3,000+ FPS
In M4's? By chrome lining the barrel, and using harder steels in their barrels. I am quite positive that you will not find a bolt action rifle by any of - Remington, CZ, Mossberg, Kimber, Proof, Savage, Sitka, Weatherby, TC, Browning, or another readily available brand - that would make it anywhere near that round count without some serious velocity or accuracy issues. If they made it there at all, precision would suffer greatly. And in an M4, precision is defined differently than the ARs we're discussing here.
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Kswhitetails - 09-24-2020
Lemonaid Wrote:A 5.56 has less powder behind it pushing a smaller weight bullet than the Grendel or 6ARC so less erosion. I'm not informed about barrel life of a fast twist 5.56 using the heavy bullets but it should be less.
The 5.56 has more chamber pressure, more velocity, and greater throat temperatures than Grendel. Wouldn't it be the opposite? I can't speak for ARC, as I don't know the extent of it's typical pressures.
From everything I know, chamber pressure and it's relationship to bullet velocity is what creates "barrel burner" chamberings.
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Lemonaid - 09-25-2020
My x-ray vision failed me when I looked into the chamber to see what's going on while a round is being fired, sooo my understanding from the Zediker book is it's a combination thing over time, "pressure time curve, the relationship between bullet acceleration and pressure build up. A heavier bullet gets started slower, the pressure behind it is confined to build and peak is a shorter distance."
The amount of powder in the case matters, a 220 Swift barrel will erode faster than other smaller case barrels (.223 or 5.56) even if the peak chamber pressure was close to the same. A 220 Swift with heavier bullets should erode even faster.
"The erosion pattern follows the pt curve. The higher the pressure and the greater the amount of powder burned relative to bore size the greater the erosion. Erosion is increased by a higher volume of gas flow concentrated in a small area."
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Kswhitetails - 09-25-2020
We load to the best of our abilities aware of the restrictions of the Saami maximums. The Saami Maximum for Grendel is 52K, where 5.56 is (I don't remember if this is Saami) 62k. Temperature in confined gasses is directly related to pressure during combustion. Velocities from Grendel rarely exceed 2600 fps, whereas 5.56 rarely sees anything that slow. That's enough difference that you shouldn't need your x-ray glasses at all, right?
If the key to the issue of throat erosion lies in the relative pressure and powder volume to bore size ratios, then both of these are relatively low in Grendel. At least lower than 5.56 as a proportional comparison. It would be lower than the 6ARC as well. In reality it's probably too small to matter. Time will tell.
< 1/2 MOA 6.5 Grendel Barrel? - Lemonaid - 09-25-2020
Kswhitetails, I don't want to divert this thread overmuch. I would propose to use empirical evidence as a valid comparison vs. theory. Has anyone reported shooting out their Grendel barrels and at what round count? Would be good info to have.