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+--- Thread: Mag fed loads not grouping well (/showthread.php?tid=19303)
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Mag fed loads not grouping well - LoadHunter - 07-27-2019
I'm certainly not ruling out shooter error. I've been shooting for over half a century. Competed with handguns, shotguns, .22's, bows...basically if it shoots, I've done it, but I do know enough to know that just when you think you've mastered it...you haven't. That's why I find shooting so fascinating. It never gets old.
Tomorrow I hope to work on me including bipod prone. I do plan to load some smk's along with the AMax's just to compare. I'm really hoping its me. It's just so odd that the groups were so consistently similar (in a bad way) and no matter what I did, they didn't get better. As soon as I single fed all was well.
I'm in a pretty rural area with few opportunities to let someone else try their hand and even fewer opportunities to bounce around ideas, so for now it's just me (and you folks). I really appreciate all the feedback. Believe me, I'm open to all ideas.
Mag fed loads not grouping well - A5BLASTER - 07-27-2019
LoadHunter Wrote:I'm certainly not ruling out shooter error. I've been shooting for over half a century. Competed with handguns, shotguns, .22's, bows...basically if it shoots, I've done it, but I do know enough to know that just when you think you've mastered it...you haven't. That's why I find shooting so fascinating. It never gets old.
Tomorrow I hope to work on me including bipod prone. I do plan to load some smk's along with the AMax's just to compare. I'm really hoping its me. It's just so odd that the groups were so consistently similar (in a bad way) and no matter what I did, they didn't get better. As soon as I single fed all was well.
I'm in a pretty rural area with few opportunities to let someone else try their hand and even fewer opportunities to bounce around ideas, so for now it's just me (and you folks). I really appreciate all the feedback. Believe me, I'm open to all ideas.
Where you holding the rifle soft? Like you would a bolt action?
Mag fed loads not grouping well - LR1955 - 07-27-2019
LH:
Was going to say to have someone else try it but you apparently don't have anyone else around.
My suggestion is to just shoot it at various distances and from various positions and after another couple hundred rounds you will know for sure.
LR55
Mag fed loads not grouping well - grayfox - 07-27-2019
I'm thinking shooter right now as well. If fired singly then the spread is not as pronounced. And I roger definitely use sand bags vs bipod, there is a lot less possible bounce when off of the bags.
Here's one thing I picked up from "watching" myself, and that is -- how to call it? -- too "light" of a touch on the trigger, which translated to too light of a hold right AT the shot. Thus allowing more bounce. Try to slow-fire from the mag, firmly pulling the trigger thru the break all the way back to its rear rest... then let go. That settled down my shooting and improved my groups -- still not a sniper but definitely better. In a similar way I think we sometimes allow too much weapon motion right at the shot; this is particularly an issue b/c the bcg is cycling. I -- for now -- want to hold firm and steady all the way thru the bcg cycle. that's what I'm talking about here... you might try that. This fits in with the 100 yd "anticipation" mentioned above, in that in our mind we're not holding firm and steady...
bolt actions don't have as much internal motion at and after the shot so not so noticeable in a bolt gun.
Mag fed loads not grouping well - grayfox - 07-27-2019
A5 -- on the same wavelength...
Mag fed loads not grouping well - A5BLASTER - 07-27-2019
grayfox Wrote:A5 -- on the same wavelength...
Yes sir. The ar takes a lil diffrent technique to drive compared to a bolt action.
That's why I like to shot my bolt first and then finish my range time with the ar.
I noticed when I started with the ar or when I keep going back and forth between the 2 my groups for both would suffer badly.
So started shooting the bolt first and then move to the ar last. My groups went back to where they should be.
It might be me but trigger pull seems to effect my groups more with the ar then the bolt.
Mag fed loads not grouping well - dsmless - 08-02-2019
I just out of curiosity while at the range I single fed each round, I did notice that the groupings were 3 touching, while magazine fed they were not touching and the group was 1 inch in size. This is all at 100yds on the front tripod and rear bag. Using Hornaday black ammo.
I think however that while I single feed I do take longer to set the shot up and this helped me not rush the shot. While magazine feeding I felt obligated to fire the next shot faster because I knew there was one in the chamber waiting to bet touched off.
I tried the same with my mosin as I put a new scope on it and needed to sight in ,and the same happened. My 2 shot groups single feeding were touching. This was at 50yds with 150g SP PPU ammo. On this rifle I do have a timney trigger so this also helps. I loaded 3 rounds in the 5 round magazine and the groups did not touch, I guess for myself the knowing that a round is there and reay to be touched off makes me "rush" the basics of marksmanship and causes my groups to be not as tight. This is good as I will need to work on this aspect of my shooting that I never would have noticed if not for this thread.
Mag fed loads not grouping well - A5BLASTER - 08-02-2019
dsmless Wrote:I just out of curiosity while at the range I single fed each round, I did notice that the groupings were 3 touching, while magazine fed they were not touching and the group was 1 inch in size. This is all at 100yds on the front tripod and rear bag. Using Hornaday black ammo.
I think however that while I single feed I do take longer to set the shot up and this helped me not rush the shot. While magazine feeding I felt obligated to fire the next shot faster because I knew there was one in the chamber waiting to bet touched off.
I tried the same with my mosin as I put a new scope on it and needed to sight in ,and the same happened. My 2 shot groups single feeding were touching. This was at 50yds with 150g SP PPU ammo. On this rifle I do have a timney trigger so this also helps. I loaded 3 rounds in the 5 round magazine and the groups did not touch, I guess for myself the knowing that a round is there and reay to be touched off makes me "rush" the basics of marksmanship and causes my groups to be not as tight. This is good as I will need to work on this aspect of my shooting that I never would have noticed if not for this thread.
Try replacing the tripod with a front bag and take about 10 dry shots before fireing any live ammo. Helps build the position.
I get trigger happy as well sometimes just got to breath,slow down and focus on fundamentals and follow through.
Mag fed loads not grouping well - tgad2 - 08-02-2019
I noticed that my 123gr ELDM plastic tips get slightly deformed when fed from mags. That was the first thing I thought of when I read of your problems.
Mag fed loads not grouping well - A5BLASTER - 08-02-2019
tgad2 Wrote:I noticed that my 123gr ELDM plastic tips get slightly deformed when fed from mags. That was the first thing I thought of when I read of your problems.
Sound spike you may have a mag issue. None of the ar grendels I have had are still have deform the polymer tips on any bullet. Unless the mag feed lips need a bit of a touch up.
Mag fed loads not grouping well - Jakal - 08-03-2019
LoadHunter,
You say you are running .003-.004 neck tension + Lee FCD and your bullets are moving .003-.006. Sounds like a lot of neck tension, not sure why your bullets are moving. Something to look at.
Also what type of trigger? Didn't see it mentioned. 7-9 # GI or a quality low poundage trigger?
Quality triggers usually decrease group size. Light pull vs really having to squeeze hard enough your barrel moves.
Mag fed loads not grouping well - Warlock - 08-04-2019
This is going to sound silly but, when the OP fires single loaded rounds, the OP most likely loads the round, mounts the rifle, carefully aims, carefully breaks the trigger and POOF!
A very accurate shot and impact is on the target.
On a mag loaded round, the OP does exactly the same the same on the first round fired. stays mounted on the rifle, aims and fires, the group on the target falls apart with each following shot.
I would like to suggest that the OP dis-mount the rifle between each mag fed round fired, re-mount the rifle and follow the same procedure as if the rifle was a single shot.
I think the OP is little by little losing control of his weapon and without realizing it, muscling the rifle back on target.
I believe if the OP does the above, the mag-fed group will close up and be identical to the single fed group.
Mag fed loads not grouping well - Warlock - 08-06-2019
It appears that I killed another informative thread.
Sorry OP.
Mag fed loads not grouping well - dsmless - 08-20-2019
Had a chance this weekend to shoot the grendel (hornaday black ammo),
I loaded 3 rounds in the magazine, dialed in my elevation for 450y shot at the 10? gong. All 3 shots hit the gong. All at different locations but on the gong took about 30sec max to fire off the group. Repainted the gong and setup again.
Proceeded to hand load each round individually, each shot took about 45sec from setup to fire off. My groups defiantly tightened from all over the gong to more centered.
Did this twice at the 250y and the 350y gongs and same result.
My conclusion is that when I know I only have 1 shot and no quick follow up my mind makes the best of this as I take my time in proper breath control and trigger squeeze. I try and make all my shots 1 shot 1 kill shots but its defiantly myself that messes me out because I have the confidence of a quick follow up shot should I mess-up the first shot.
Mag fed loads not grouping well - brian y - 08-20-2019
dsmless Wrote:Had a chance this weekend to shoot the grendel (hornaday black ammo),
I loaded 3 rounds in the magazine, dialed in my elevation for 450y shot at the 10? gong. All 3 shots hit the gong. All at different locations but on the gong took about 30sec max to fire off the group. Repainted the gong and setup again.
Proceeded to hand load each round individually, each shot took about 45sec from setup to fire off. My groups defiantly tightened from all over the gong to more centered.
Did this twice at the 250y and the 350y gongs and same result.
My conclusion is that when I know I only have 1 shot and no quick follow up my mind makes the best of this as I take my time in proper breath control and trigger squeeze. I try and make all my shots 1 shot 1 kill shots but its defiantly myself that messes me out because I have the confidence of a quick follow up shot should I mess-up the first shot.
It looks to me that you have figured it out.
Mag fed loads not grouping well - Former Cav - 08-22-2019
this is a thing I learned in NRA highpower shooting years ago.
Think and be very conscious of where you are putting the butt of the stock into your shoulder.
Picture this.
You are standing behind a right handed shooter who is shooting to the left.
If he puts the butt of the rifle slightly LOWER into his shoulder, he will have a greater ANGLE of the barrel going up.
when you shoot, the bullet imparts the recoil force and will actually LIFT the barrel and throw the shot high.
I wore a shooting coat doing the NRA highpower game. I'd actually take the butt and TWIST it into my shoulder to eliminate it being high or low.
And then remember like a good golfer.... FOLLOW through. Keep the pressure on the trigger and don't move, exhale until a second or two after the shot. Hope this helps.