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Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - Printable Version

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Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - pinetreebbs - 10-30-2018

montana Wrote:Forgotten weapons is an excellent place for a brief but thorough history of many different types of historical and present day small arms. Ian has done an excellent job with this format. I really don't understand the anger since what he stated was true. The Grendel is not a threat to the 308 since it is an established cartridge that is going no where. Ian's love of, "all weapons French" has always made me scratch my head, but doesn't diminish his quality work on Forgotten weapons. His other channel with Karl has proven the Kalashnikov operating system is not as bullet proof as once believed and proved the Stoner system was superior in many ways especially during the mud and sand test.

Yup, I think Ian's POV is more from a military application. I've been watching his videos for years, they are well done, technically accurate and concise.

I love my Grendel, rifles, I'm not bothered one bit. If I was equipping an army, I'd likely chose the 5.56 and not the Grendel, there are so many considerations for choosing a cartridge besides ballistics alone.

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - stanc - 10-30-2018

NugginFutz Wrote:I don't sense anger, so much as confusion. My question is: What truth is the quote “6.5 Grendel is primarily a threat to the people who have invested a substantial amount of money in 6.5 Grendel.” based upon? Not that he can't have an opinion, but where does that come from?
It looks to me like it comes from thinking that 6.5 Grendel is not popular enough to remain commercially viable. I base that conclusion on his initial comment: "6.5 Grendel? Is that thing still around?"

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - stanc - 10-30-2018

pinetreebbs Wrote:Yup, I think Ian's POV is more from a military application.
I dunno about Ian, but that is clearly Larry's POV: "Like my buddy Ken Hackathorn says, get back to me when you can open up a green ammo can..."

[Image: 1540-has-military-adopted-6-5-grendel-can_65g.jpg]

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - Sticks - 10-30-2018

Stanc - Is that Creedmore ammo, or ....

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - stanc - 10-30-2018

Sticks Wrote:Stanc - Is that Creedmore ammo, or ....
No, it's 6.5 Grendel. Wink

https://www.xcrforum.com/forum/23-6-5x39mm/5432-has-military-adopted-6-5-grendel.html#post81458

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - montana - 10-30-2018

“Fake it ‘til you make it.” Smile

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - biodsl - 10-30-2018

stanc Wrote:No, it's 6.5 Grendel. Wink

https://www.xcrforum.com/forum/23-6-5x39mm/5432-has-military-adopted-6-5-grendel.html#post81458

I love it! Nicely played, sir!

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - Bearcatrp - 10-31-2018

All the big dogs stated the 308 was dead when the 6.5 creedmoor hit the shelves. I still have my 308. Tried the creedmoor but sold it. To me, the 6.5 Grendel is the baby brother of the creedmoor. I almost built a AR in the creedmoor but didn’t want the bulk and weight of an AR10. Then I learned about the Grendel. Glad I did. Less weight and almost as close to the creedmoor. Am glad I built my Grendel. Like any other caliber, some will like it, some won’t.

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - phishfood - 11-02-2018

I think his Forgotten Weapons channel is a treasure. I absolutely love learning about obscure, weird, influential, innovative, etc, weapons.

That said, when he and Karl were running the What Would Stoner Do (WWSD) series, in one of the earliest videos, they made a swipe at the 6.5 Grendel. Their contention was that the newer, heavier weight loadings available for the 5.56 negated the advantages that might be realized from alternative chamberings in an AR15 frame. Whether this came from Karl, or Ian, or from a sense of frustration from dealing with fanboyz of one particular cartridge or another, I don't know. But there does seem to be some history of dislike or disdain toward AT LEAST alternative chamberings for the AR15, if not for the 6.5 Grendel in particular.

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - IescapedCali - 11-03-2018

I’m taking his commentary the same way I take movie critics; I’m ignoring his disdain, but will listen to those parts that give me new and interesting insight. He provides those things, when it comes to classic and obscure armaments, and promotes similar curiosity. That’s his value to me. Meanwhile, i can still buy parts to assemble, bullets to shoot, and components to roll my own because, apparently, the manufacturers pay more attention to what items sell well than they pay to his scoffing. Maybe this explains why I like stupid movies, despite critics who turn their noses up at them. I just like what I like, whether the next guy does or not.

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - stanc - 11-03-2018

phishfood Wrote:That said, when he and Karl were running the What Would Stoner Do (WWSD) series, in one of the earliest videos, they made a swipe at the 6.5 Grendel. Their contention was that the newer, heavier weight loadings available for the 5.56 negated the advantages that might be realized from alternative chamberings in an AR15 frame. Whether this came from Karl, or Ian, or from a sense of frustration from dealing with fanboyz of one particular cartridge or another, I don't know. But there does seem to be some history of dislike or disdain toward AT LEAST alternative chamberings for the AR15, if not for the 6.5 Grendel in particular.
Do you recall which WWSD episode that was in? There are so many in that series, and they're rather long (Karl and Ian are the kind of people who really like to hear themselves talk! :eek: ), too long to watch all of them in a quest to locate that part.

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - BjornF16 - 11-03-2018

Was in my local Academy today looking for ammo and browsing their gun inventory. Gun counter clerk asks if he can help...I replied by asking if they had anything in Grendel

Response: "On our shelves?" (chuckling)..."Grendel is a dying cartridge."

This attitude explains why I haven't been able to find any Grendel ammo at Academy for the last 1-2 years.

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - Frontier Gear - 11-03-2018

Quote:“6.5 Grendel is primarily a threat to the people who have invested a substantial amount of money in 6.5 Grendel.”
Quote:"On our shelves?" (chuckling)..."Grendel is a dying cartridge."

It's funny how that perception is out there. I'm seeing more and more Grendel uppers for sale from different manufactures now than ever before. Even the low end guys like Delta Team Tactical and Moriarti Armaments are offering up Grendel products. I see the Grendel in their adds more often than I see the 6.8 or the .458. Then you have BCA, Anderson, Diamond Back and Starline Brass all jumping on board recently. BCA can't keep their Grendel stuff in stock, even though it is far from "top tier". One thing I don't see advertised much is the ammo, and perhaps that is why the perception is so strong. You don't see Grendel ammo on the shelves at Walmart.

The Grendel has been out for a long time now and it certainly has been slow to take off, but it's not dying. Even if it does decrease in popularity, that doesn't mean we can't still use it. A friend of mine just bought a .280AI. He had to search high and low for it, but he loads his own and loves it. A lot of guys use obscure rounds successfully. This idea that you must be an idiot for investing in something that "everyone else" isn't using is a silly notion.

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - Popeye212 - 11-03-2018

BjornF16 Wrote:Was in my local Academy today looking for ammo and browsing their gun inventory. Gun counter clerk asks if he can help...I replied by asking if they had anything in Grendel

Response: "On our shelves?" (chuckling)..."Grendel is a dying cartridge."

This attitude explains why I haven't been able to find any Grendel ammo at Academy for the last 1-2 years.

None on the Academy shelves here either as of yesterday it doesn't stay on the shelf long. 6.8 and 300 BO are hot items up here and plenty on the shelves. Guys behind the counter are mostly prime sources of misinformation and spread it freely when asked.

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - Wargrendeleagle - 11-03-2018

I see the Hornady black grendel on the shelves at academy here all the time. But that's the only brand. But beggars can't be choosers

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - NugginFutz - 11-03-2018

BjornF16 Wrote:Was in my local Academy today looking for ammo and browsing their gun inventory. Gun counter clerk asks if he can help...I replied by asking if they had anything in Grendel

Response: "On our shelves?" (chuckling)..."Grendel is a dying cartridge."

This attitude explains why I haven't been able to find any Grendel ammo at Academy for the last 1-2 years.

I've heard the same thing over at the local Cabelas. My first response was "Who told you that?" Answer was "I just heard that from another customer." My second response was "I've been told Cabelas is a dying franchise." He didn't ask where I heard that.

I spoke with their gun department manager, and asked why, when the store opened 6 months previously, Grendel was stocked deep and wide on the shelves, but not now? If it was so unpopular, who bought it all? Answer was "We don't order anything. We stock what they (Bass Pro Shops) ships to them." Notice how the question was dodged.

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - Sticks - 11-04-2018

NugginFutz Wrote:...
I spoke with their gun department manager, and asked why, when the store opened 6 months previously, Grendel was stocked deep and wide on the shelves, but not now? If it was so unpopular, who bought it all? Answer was "We don't order anything. We stock what they (Bass Pro Shops) ships to them." Notice how the question was dodged.

That is an accurate statement that threw me sideways.

I went in looking for some gunpowder. They were out of stock. Did not know when it would come in. I asked if they could put it on their next stock order, and...

Clerk - "We don't order anything. We get what the warehouse ships us."

Me - "What? You can't place a special order for a customer?"

My search turned up the powder I was looking for at a local reloading shop for $4 less per pound. Typically $4 higher than everyone else.

Clerk - "Sorry, no."

Me - "I can order it online, but I can't ship to store because it's Hazmat. You can't order it, you just have to wait for it to show up, if it does. Is there anybody you can call to say 'Look, we are out of stock and need to get some of this on the shelf' ?"

Clerk - "Nope"

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - LR1955 - 11-04-2018

Sticks Wrote:That is an accurate statement that threw me sideways.

I went in looking for some gunpowder. They were out of stock. Did not know when it would come in. I asked if they could put it on their next stock order, and...

Clerk - "We don't order anything. We get what the warehouse ships us."

Me - "What? You can't place a special order for a customer?"

My search turned up the powder I was looking for at a local reloading shop for $4 less per pound. Typically $4 higher than everyone else.

Clerk - "Sorry, no."

Me - "I can order it online, but I can't ship to store because it's Hazmat. You can't order it, you just have to wait for it to show up, if it does. Is there anybody you can call to say 'Look, we are out of stock and need to get some of this on the shelf' ?"

Clerk - "Nope"


Sticks:

I was wondering why a Sportsmans Warehouse went under when I was living in an area that had a big population and was near numerous recreational sites. Their shelves would be bare of things guys needed for months on end. Full of stuff that guys obviously didn't need because the stock never moved.

The business model reminds me of the Soviet Union. A central planner ships the store what the central planner says they need, not what the store needs based on demand. What a business model!

LR55

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - IescapedCali - 11-04-2018

LR1955 Wrote:Sticks:

I was wondering why a Sportsmans Warehouse went under when I was living in an area that had a big population and was near numerous recreational sites. Their shelves would be bare of things guys needed for months on end. Full of stuff that guys obviously didn't need because the stock never moved.

The business model reminds me of the Soviet Union. A central planner ships the store what the central planner says they need, not what the store needs based on demand. What a business model!

LR55

I was told the same by the clerk at my local SW. He gave me their corporate office’s number, where I called to simply ask them to stock more Grendel ammo (seriously 20 CM options, but only 1 Grr space on the shelf, which usually sits empty). Their response: “Why don’t you just order it online, and have it shipped to the store”? Because I’d like to not wait several days to do what I want to do today, and besides I can already order it online and have it shipped to my house. Why would I buy online and still drive to the store to pick it up? They dislike it when you show them that their business model sucks. There are several Grendel shooters in my area (at least one other forum member, plus a few who have told me they lurk here). That still isn’t sufficient to motivate them to carry more Grr stuff. I went yesterday looking for more ABLR to load, and the spot on the shelf was bare. I guess they have no intention to compete for the business of folks who know they can buy online and have stuff shipped to their homes.

Forgotten Weapons’ Ian McCollum on 6.5 Grendel. Hmmm. - Texas - 11-04-2018

Shot the 308 for the first time yesterday in a long time, and the recoil difference was incredibly noticeable. With the killing power, weight differential, and recoil, the Grendel will never be replaced or overlooked because of the 308.