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+--- Thread: No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands (/showthread.php?tid=16913)
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - Mad Charlie - 08-22-2018
"BTW, that's a beautiful chamber cast. "
Yes it is, Did you pre-warm the chamber area with a heat gun or similar?
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - Mikey7373 - 08-23-2018
Mad Charlie, I did use a heat gun to give the barrel some extra heat instead of a blow dryer,also that was my third casting the first two came out with air pockets right at the case mouth, only thing I did different on the third pour was I slowed my pouring speed down,i don't know if that let the air pockets escape better and rise to the top but it seemed to work good.
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - Mikey7373 - 08-23-2018
ok guys so I measured the bolt face depth and it is indeed a .136.. I did the inertia test that BFT spoke of, putting a 123 gr sst with light finger pressure into the chamber turning the barrel upside down and from about three inches letting it thump back down the SST came out sometimes with one thumping sometimes it took two thumping's. did the same thing with the 123 gr American gunner ammo and it did not come back out as easy, it took 3-5 thumping's to get it to fall back out. an interesting side effect I was not expecting,I guess the chamber still had some black marker inside of it from when I colored the two rounds with marker from before to look for where the marker came off at. the American gunner ammo when it came out had little black marker spots all the way around it showing exactly where it was engaged at, the SST had a couple marks also, ill post some pictures as well. where do I go from here guys ? use a finish reamer ? spend some more (no one tell my wife) money on a new barrel ? any thoughts would be appreciated.[ATTACH=CONFIG]12543[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]12544[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]12546[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]12547[/ATTACH]
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - JASmith - 08-23-2018
The good news is that you have succeeded in creating a good illustration of what a “light kiss” except that the engagement is a bit far forward. That is reinforced by the scratches near the case mouth shown inthe first set of photos.
Bottom line, in my view is that having to push factory ammo out with a cleaning rod after the bolt has been allowed to go into battery suggests that you may have trouble with higher than normal pressures. Further, rhink about the hassle if one is out hunting needs to unload the rifle in the field...
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - JASmith - 08-23-2018
So, LRRPF52 is right, the Precision Firearms group buy is a good place to expose oneself to minum risk while getting a very inexpensive barrel. Fallback is simply go with one of his excellent barrels at a slightly higher price.
LRRPF52 introduced me to the proprieter at the SHOT Show 2016 and we visited them again this January at SHOT. MY impression is that he is solid. Further LRRPF52 thinks highly of him. My experience with him is that folks LRPF52 vets are almost always top of the line people. (“almost always” only because I have a hard time speaking in abolutes when my life experince suggests thare are exceptions to every rule...)
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - LRRPF52 - 08-23-2018
This would clean up easily with a quality finish reamer. Only a few tiny flakes would come out of the throat.
I used cutting oil when I've done it on some older cut-rifled barrels that were jamming the lands pretty hard, making sure to only turn in the direction of the cutting flutes.
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - Mikey7373 - 08-23-2018
Ok so this leads me to a couple final questions before I decide to finish ream this barrel or buy a new one, so LRR or anyone with experience or an opinion 😀 on the subject ..after doing some searching online I believe LRR is correct in thinking that this barrel is double star, they are the only ones that I could find that had a 20 1-9 twist SS bull barrel, that being said are these barrels accuracy wise good or bad ? If I do my part should I expect a good shooting barrel ? My online searching of course showed both opinions, some said they were great, others said they were scrap metal. Tell me what you think before I make a final decision here,
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - BluntForceTrauma - 08-23-2018
Double-Star, in my mind, has a solid reputation for a low- to mid-level barrel. At that level, consistency will be somewhat variable, but quality will be acceptable. I've never owned or shot one, however, that's just my gut-level feeling from the internet.
My opinion: If it were me, I'd (1) finish ream the barrel. You can do this by spinning the reamer in the chamber with firm, but not crazy firm, finger pressure. You don't want to make the overall chamber deeper, cuz then you're changing the headspace, but you want to "re-cut" the rifling in the throat if it's not SAAMI. (2) Then, both do some chambering tests with factory ammo as you have done previously, and make a new chamber cast to see if there's any difference. (3) Shoot it if the first angle of the lands seems shallower than your previous cast and if ammo is not sticking badly. Also remember that things loosen up and settle in after the weapon is fired and cycled a bunch of times.
Doing it this way saves you both the expense of a new barrel and gunsmith services. I don't know how a gunsmith could spin a reamer in there any better than you; it's got a magnetic floating pilot so it kinda just pops into place and centers itself. But hire one if you want.
And if it were me, first few firings I'd keep my face a safe distance away from the receiver and carefully inspect each and every brass until I was either confident or scared.
It's possible this barrel was reamed in an era (I think we're still in that era, to some extent) where a popular Pacific Northwest reamer maker would send Grendel reamers with his preferred "dimensions-of-the-day" to unsuspecting barrel makers. His attitude was: "The compound throat idea is stupid — except when I later tried to market a very similar concept — and so I'll give you what SAAMI should have been, because I know better than everybody else, particularly Bill Alexander. And you'll thank me later when your rifle shoots great and then — surprise! — it's not a real SAAMI chamber, but my own concoction, and now you've proved to yourself I was right all along!" Not saying that's the case here, but is a possibility.
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - Mikey7373 - 08-24-2018
BFT, good advice on face placement, dont wanna ruin what my wife calls nice face... what you gonna do when the baboon wants his ass back ... I think Im leaning to your way of thinking right now, especially if your still willing to rent me your finish reamer. Then Ill shoot this thing and if the accuracy just isnt there then Ill go the route of a new barrel. Sending you a pm about the reamer. Thank you sir...
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - Mikey7373 - 08-24-2018
John, BFT ,PM sent about your finish reamer.
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - VASCAR2 - 08-24-2018
A Friend bought a Double Star/J&T 24” 416 R SS upper a few years ago and was very accurate barrel. He ended up cutting the barrel back to 20”. We suspected the DS/J&T air gauged barrel was a Wilson Arms blank or complete barrel which DS sold. I have a couple of 1:9 twist 6.5 Grendel barrels (16” J&T) and they are good shooters but I haven’t shot any heavier bullets at long range. My Son in Law has shot 129 grain Hornady bullets in his 22” 1:9 twist 6.5 Grendel with good results.
If I were in your situation I’d probably finish ream the barrel you have.
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - Mikey7373 - 08-24-2018
Thank you Vascar, I had decided to finish ream the barrel I have and thanks to the generosity of one of the horde I will be able to do that next week, but its good to hear from someone who has hands on experience with JT/DS barrels and have good results, I was hoping to have it shooting accurately by the time D-13 California deer hunt opened in October. Worse case Ill just stick with the trusted browning x bolt or maybe just hunt the muzzleloader hunt this year. Thanks to everyone who chimed in,all the information was much appreciated.
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - Mikey7373 - 08-28-2018
Ok guys I need your help once again, so the finish reamer that was so graciously loaned to me arrived yesterday and the reamer seems to be self centering with the bushing it has,with no downward pressure just slowly turning it I didnt feel the reamer make contact and cut anything, I gave it a turn and put the SST and American gunner ammo in the barrel and both still got stuck in the lands as before no change, so I put the reamer back in gave it a couple turns and tried the ammo again with the same results, ammo still sticking, am i missing something with how to use the finish reamer ? Again I didnt apply downward force. Just turned it in its place. Any thoughts ?
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - ricsmall - 08-28-2018
First be sure your chamber/throat are spic-n-span. Then oil reamer with a high quality cutting oil. Gently push reamer in while turning slightly until you feel it bottom out. You will need to apply a little force while turning. Make 3-4 complete turns, clean out chamber with brake cleaner and air. Check with cartridge. If you need to do more, clean reamer and re-oil, then repeat above with SLIGHT pressure. You should feel reamer when it bottoms out on shoulder. Shouldn’t take much. If u need more assistance, feel free to ask.
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - Mikey7373 - 08-28-2018
Thank you Ric, I will try with some downward pressure this evening when I get home. Appreciate the advice.
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - louielouie - 10-06-2018
Since I also have a 6.5x284 Winchester that has a short throat - my BCA Grr does too - I'm looking at rental the precision throating tool from https://4drentals.com/products/precthroat/ and move the throats out a little more.
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - JASmith - 10-06-2018
louielouie Wrote:Since I also have a 6.5x284 Winchester that has a short throat - my BCA Grr does too - I'm looking at rental the precision throating tool from https://4drentals.com/products/precthroat/ and move the throats out a little more.That throating tool should work OK for the 6.5-284 but not likely good fornthe Grendel.
SAAMI specifies a tapered freebore and the finish reamer is almost certsinly designed to cut a cylindrical freebore. Better to rent or borrow a finish reamer for the Grendel.
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - LRRPF52 - 10-11-2018
Mikey7373 Wrote:Ok guys I need your help once again, so the finish reamer that was so graciously loaned to me arrived yesterday and the reamer seems to be self centering with the bushing it has,with no downward pressure just slowly turning it I didn’t feel the reamer make contact and cut anything, I gave it a turn and put the SST and American gunner ammo in the barrel and both still got stuck in the lands as before no change, so I put the reamer back in gave it a couple turns and tried the ammo again with the same results, ammo still sticking, am i missing something with how to use the finish reamer ? Again I didn’t apply downward force. Just turned it in it’s place. Any thoughts ?
You need to apply some light pressure do get it to cut, using cutting oil. Don't back the reamer out in the opposite direction of the cutting flutes.
The chamber needs to be polished after you finish-ream it. Use one of the 6.5 Grendel chamber brushes with patches and bore paste.
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - Mikey7373 - 10-13-2018
LRRP , thanks for the advice, I was graciously loaned a Manson finish reamer and after I turned it a couple times and didnt feel any contact, I figured better safe then sorry and I took it to a local gunsmith whos done some work for a couple people I know and who has done a couple transfers for me. Apparently he was training an assistant and he left it to the assistant to run the reamer unsupervised and the assistant somehow ran it uncentered and for lack for a better explanation scooped out a portion of the chamber and screwed that grendel bull barrel up, in trying to come to an agreement the gunsmith said he could ream the barrel to a 6.5 creedmore but then Id have to start a creedmore build I wasnt planning on doing , anyone have any experience reaming from a Grendel to a creedmore ?
No free bore/factory ammo getting stuck in lands - jurassic - 10-13-2018
I've had similar experiences with local gunsmiths, they don't touch any of my rifles anymore. I wish I lived close to a reputable gunsmith.