LR1955 Wrote:Stan:




Finally, how come no one can seem to come up with an answer to his question about the NFA, GCA of 1968, and various 'Assault Weapons' bans that have been upheld in the courts? I am truly interested in knowing why these bans are possible if the 2A is absolute?

Just saying that these anti gun measures were taken by people who did not 'understand' the 2A is not an answer.

LR55

LR1955 Wrote:Stan: I was referring to PeterD, not you.

LR1955 Wrote:Again, for those of you who think Stan does not participate in any other forum, you need to look at the Military and Police forums.

LR1955 Wrote:Finally, how come no one can seem to come up with an answer to his question about the NFA, GCA of 1968, and various 'Assault Weapons' bans that have been upheld in the courts? I am truly interested in knowing why these bans are possible if the 2A is absolute?

Just saying that these anti gun measures were taken by people who did not 'understand' the 2A is not an answer.

montana Wrote:Arguing over an obvious to some people with people who refuse to believe it is not an obvious truth is pointless.

stanc Wrote:Neither LR55 nor I are seeking argument. We'd just like an answer to the question: Since, during the last 80+ years, numerous Federal gun control laws have been enacted which clearly "infringe" on the RKBA, and which have been upheld in the courts, how can any rational person believe that the Second Amendment actually prevents the government from creating and implementing gun laws?

montana Wrote:I don't think anyone believes the Constitution in of itself will actually prevents ignorant, dishonest or corrupt government representatives from doing anything. The Constitution is suppose to be the rules and the system is suppose to enforce those rules. Obviously this does not always happen with our guaranteed rights including the 2nd Amendment. Like all things of great value, "cheating, dishonest practice, illegal and immoral actions will occur" to steal those rights from some to empower others. To discredit, "basic, easy to understand Constitutional rights" is like someone urinating on ones head and claiming it is raining outside. Agree or disagree this is my opinion.

LR1955 Wrote:Stan:

I was referring to PeterD, not you.

Again, for those of you who think Stan does not participate in any other forum, you need to look at the Military and Police forums.

Finally, how come no one can seem to come up with an answer to his question about the NFA, GCA of 1968, and various 'Assault Weapons' bans that have been upheld in the courts? I am truly interested in knowing why these bans are possible if the 2A is absolute?

Just saying that these anti gun measures were taken by people who did not 'understand' the 2A is not an answer.

LR55

montana Wrote:I don't think anyone believes the Constitution in of itself will actually prevent ignorant, dishonest or corrupt government representatives from doing anything. The Constitution is suppose to be the rules and the system is suppose to enforce those rules. Obviously this does not always happen with our guaranteed rights including the 2nd Amendment.

StoneHendge Wrote:As to the Military and Police forum, I find very little Grendel content there. Plenty of subjects such as Green ammo, M855, 12.7 LMGs, etc, but the only 2 Grendel related threads on the first page haven't had a comment since December.

StoneHendge Wrote:As to the Military and Police forum, I find very little Grendel content there. Plenty of subjects such as Green ammo, M855, 12.7 LMGs, etc, but the only 2 Grendel related threads on the first page haven't had a comment since December. I personally have enough issues with the federal government. I really don't need to read about their ill informed and crony capitalistic decisions as it relates to small arms development.

As it relates to various assault weapons bans that have been held up in court, its quite simple. The left side of the judicial system has been completely politicized. Any one who disagrees with this just needs to take a look at half of the decisions coming out of the 9th Circuit. These judges care more about advancing the agenda of the left and the globalists and inhibiting the will of the people (when the pendulum has swung in that direction) rather than adhering to the documents that set forth the foundation of our government. Thus, the constitutional rights of We the People get slowly eroded like rain on sandstone as the Supreme Court swings from 5-4 to 4-5 and back and forth again.

Bj: "Shall not be infringed has been violated by our masters." You got it wrong. We are the masters in a government by the people for the people. Our government has been usurped from us by career politicians. Anything that follows is just gravy for them. We have an incredible man in the oval office who is doing his very best to restore power to the people. I get discouraged every morning when I read the news and see the roadblocks, but get reinvigorated when I realize that a man that has everything anyone could ever dream of continues to lead the fight.

LR1955 Wrote:SH:

You obviously never had anything to do with the RDTE system in the military, so absolutely false is your statement about chrony capitalism being the decision maker for small arms. Maybe if you read some of the stuff LRRP52 and Stan have been discussing on the Military and Police forum about small arms for the Infantry, you would begin to see what goes on when it comes to small arms development.

So, you agree that the 2A is not stopping the congress from enacting anti gun laws.

It is true and once our side understands that the argument of the 2A or any other right 'guaranteed' by the Constitution can be modified, then maybe we can come up with a strategy to ensure such legislation doesn't happen. Woaah! We can vote! So, if you don't like your career politician, vote for someone else, make your own run for office, and or actively support a candidate you think will do your bidding.

LR55

LR1955 Wrote:SH:

You obviously never had anything to do with the RDTE system in the military, so absolutely false is your statement about chrony capitalism being the decision maker for small arms. Maybe if you read some of the stuff LRRP52 and Stan have been discussing on the Military and Police forum about small arms for the Infantry, you would begin to see what goes on when it comes to small arms development.

So, you agree that the 2A is not stopping the congress from enacting anti gun laws.

It is true and once our side understands that the argument of the 2A or any other right 'guaranteed' by the Constitution can be modified, then maybe we can come up with a strategy to ensure such legislation doesn't happen. Woaah! We can vote! So, if you don't like your career politician, vote for someone else, make your own run for office, and or actively support a candidate you think will do your bidding.

LR55

StoneHendge Wrote:I never have had anything to do with the RDTE system in the military. Nor have I ever had anything to do with the military. I actually just googled RDTE to see what I means!. I wouldn't be able read much of what is being discussed since Stan is on my ignore list. Unfortunately, this sites software still shows some of his posts when other people use the Reply With Quote function. But to be honest, the process really doesn't interest me at all. The only thing that really interests me from the military is the perfectly good M80 and M193 that they put an X in front of and then sell off into the civilian market. I don't shoot a lot of it because I don't see the point of burning up my barrels with it, but I sure do like it when the guy next to me let's me have his 1x LC brass!

The problem is not that the 2A isn't stopping Congress from passing anti gun laws. The problem is that the politicized judicial system isn't adhering to the Constitution and using 2A to strike down the anti-gun laws. But then you turn around and see the 9th Circuit strike down Trump's travel ban because someone in Chad who has never set foot on US soil is protected by the Constitution? Party before country. Fulfill the agenda at all costs.

Lets face it, the United States is no longer united. Having spent the first 40 years of my life in the NYC area and 18 years as a professional in the financial world, I know what those people and their counterparts on the left coast really think about you, me and the rest of us here in this site. And it ain't pretty. I don't mean that in terms of gun ownership only. I mean that in terms of what we do for fun, what we eat, our values and our general way of life.

I see it as going far beyond voting. One brick at a time. Each and every one of us who care deeply can influence one or two people who are mildly brainwashed by the MSM and who really aren't paying attention. Those numbers add up. I find the easiest way to do that is to call out and bring to light the hypocrisy. One of the reasons I like Peter D's threads is because he brings some of these examples to light that I might not otherwise see. It's like getting an arrow for the quiver before going out into the world where the issues are discussed. And like I said on another thread earlier today, 2A is just a battle in a much bigger war.

montana Wrote:The problem with this type of strategy "thinking" is to surrender to the democracy lie. Yes we can vote and yes our rights can be modified, but only by the repeal or amendment process, not by the opinion of the day movement. Because it is done that way does not justify or legitimize it.

montana Wrote:Everyone votes and supports their candidate but disregarding the original intent of our Constitutional process is to disregard the Constitution in of itself.

montana Wrote:An elected official who decides to make a play on a meaning, or stack a court to subvert a law for convenience or gain is criminal and should be exposed and held accountable.

montana Wrote:We as gun owners need to expose these illegal, criminal, UN-Constitutional laws...

montana Wrote:Playing the anti's game of up is down and night is day is a fools play.

montana Wrote:If you think there is no crony capitalism in government...

montana Wrote:Lobbyist lobbying Congress is nice euphemism for bribery.

StoneHendge Wrote:Lets face it, the United States is no longer united.

StoneHendge Wrote:I never have had anything to do with the RDTE system in the military. Nor have I ever had anything to do with the military. I actually just googled RDTE to see what I means!. I wouldn't be able read much of what is being discussed since Stan is on my ignore list. Unfortunately, this sites software still shows some of his posts when other people use the Reply With Quote function. But to be honest, the process really doesn't interest me at all. The only thing that really interests me from the military is the perfectly good M80 and M193 that they put an X in front of and then sell off into the civilian market. I don't shoot a lot of it because I don't see the point of burning up my barrels with it, but I sure do like it when the guy next to me let's me have his 1x LC brass!

The problem is not that the 2A isn't stopping Congress from passing anti gun laws. The problem is that the politicized judicial system isn't adhering to the Constitution and using 2A to strike down the anti-gun laws. But then you turn around and see the 9th Circuit strike down Trump's travel ban because someone in Chad who has never set foot on US soil is protected by the Constitution? Party before country. Fulfill the agenda at all costs.

Lets face it, the United States is no longer united. Having spent the first 40 years of my life in the NYC area and 18 years as a professional in the financial world, I know what those people and their counterparts on the left coast really think about you, me and the rest of us here in this site. And it ain't pretty. I don't mean that in terms of gun ownership only. I mean that in terms of what we do for fun, what we eat, our values and our general way of life.

I see it as going far beyond voting. One brick at a time. Each and every one of us who care deeply can influence one or two people who are mildly brainwashed by the MSM and who really aren't paying attention. Those numbers add up. I find the easiest way to do that is to call out and bring to light the hypocrisy. One of the reasons I like Peter D's threads is because he brings some of these examples to light that I might not otherwise see. It's like getting an arrow for the quiver before going out into the world where the issues are discussed. And like I said on another thread earlier today, 2A is just a battle in a much bigger war.

LR1955 Wrote:...
Afraid it does come down to having a candidate who supports the 2A and also wins. You can convince anyone you want about the virtues of the Constitution but if they continue to vote for leftists, it doesn't matter.
...

Sticks Wrote:Left or right, it does not matter. Firearm restrictions put in place do not get repealed, removed, modified to be less restrictive - as is the opportunity ever time the powers in the lofty seats shift polarity. Throw the peasants a bone. Allow them to carry in National Parks. Ooooohhhhh. Done by the Left no less.

End game for the Govt - remove the power from the people, and the ability for the people to stop the govt. Left/Right. Red/Blue. Same story.

Frog in a pot.

And you are correct LR55 - It is the right of Dick's to hire them. As is our right not to shop there. The loss of our money is not going to impact their bottom line one bit. They have the current generation stuck on other sports and activities to keep them well into the black. Their throwing their money in with the effort to add to the restrictions on the gun owning public however is going to leave a mark.