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+--- Thread: Motivated Moscow Match Redux (/showthread.php?tid=14575)
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Randy99CL - 12-04-2017
ItsRainingLead Wrote:I've watched a lot of those videos and have a good concept of the process for loading fresh but I don't have much idea on what steps are needed for replacing the pills on Wolf steel. This is really pertinent to me since I have a lot of Wolf steel.
It depends on exactly what you are trying to do. Do you want to just reload the unfired cases? Then pull the bullet and dump the powder. But the case capacity and primer are unknowns so you have to start with reduced loads and work up.
If you're just starting to handload it's better to just start from scratch with new components and follow all the directions exactly. Down the road you can mess with the Wolf.
Edit: The problem with this idea is that we have no idea how much another person knows. Having experience allows us to take things for granted that another person hasn't come across yet and doesn't know.
The whole thing that makes reloading safe is knowing exactly what each component is going to do. Changing any part of a recipe could be dangerous until we test at a reduced level and see the outcome.
Reloading with Wolf introduces two unknowns: the case and the primer. Having a lot of experience many here know how to safely work up loads using these components but a novice first needs to learn how to reload safely and consistently with the exact directions from the manuals.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - bj139 - 12-04-2017
Randy99CL Wrote:You have to 1. Pull the bullet
2. Collect the powder in a container Measure the powder charge from many to get the average.
3. Run the expander into the case to expand the neck. Probably a good idea to remove the decapping pin just in case.
4. Recharge case with powder
5. Seat new bullet with press Crimp case if necessary.
If you blow your face off you didn't hear how from me...
You don't have to remove the decapping pin since the cases are Berdan primed and the pin will break before anything worse happens.
Don't ask me how I know.
3.5 Inside chamfer neck to reduce bullet scraping.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Randy99CL - 12-04-2017
bj139 Wrote:You don't have to remove the decapping pin since the cases are Berdan primed and the pin will break before anything worse happens.
Don't ask me how I know.
3.5 Inside chamfer neck to reduce bullet scraping.
I changed this post because (after further consideration) I would rather see someone who is totally new to reloading not try this at all. Not until more experienced.
But I would take the decapping pin off so I wouldn't accidentally run it too far into the case and break it off.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - ItsRainingLead - 12-04-2017
Randy99CL Wrote:It depends on exactly what you are trying to do. Do you want to just reload the unfired cases? Then pull the bullet and dump the powder. But the case capacity and primer are unknowns so you have to start with reduced loads and work up.
If you're just starting to handload it's better to just start from scratch with new components and follow all the directions exactly. Down the road you can mess with the Wolf.
Edit: The problem with this idea is that we have no idea how much another person knows. Having experience allows us to take things for granted that another person hasn't come across yet and doesn't know.
The whole thing that makes reloading safe is knowing exactly what each component is going to do. Changing any part of a recipe could be dangerous until we test at a reduced level and see the outcome.
Reloading with Wolf introduces two unknowns: the case and the primer. Having a lot of experience many here know how to safely work up loads using these components but a novice first needs to learn how to reload safely and consistently with the exact directions from the manuals.
I'm wanting to use the Wolf steel case and primer, and load my own powder and bullets. This is primarily for hunting where I don't want to worry about lost brass. I may just stick with brass.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Sticks - 12-04-2017
ItsRainingLead Wrote:I'm wanting to use the Wolf steel case and primer, and load my own powder and bullets. This is primarily for hunting where I don't want to worry about lost brass. I may just stick with brass.
Nothing wrong with the wolf powder, I'd reuse it. Pick what ever projectile you want to use and do a proper load work up if going higher than 100gr.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - pajasonc - 12-06-2017
I have thought about pulling the wolf bullet and loading a nosler 100 btip. Anyone see any issues with just using the powder thats in the case or could the btip cause to much pressure?
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - bj139 - 12-06-2017
pajasonc Wrote:I have thought about pulling the wolf bullet and loading a nosler 100 btip. Anyone see any issues with just using the powder thats in the case or could the btip cause to much pressure?
I have loaded 85gr flat base Sierras after pulling the Wolf bullet. It worked fine.
There are two factors when considering if there might be an overload, bullet weight and friction against the barrel.
An educated guess would say bullet weight is much more important.
If you go the same or lower weight you should be fine as long as the bullet diameter fits the barrel.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Sticks - 12-06-2017
Same seating depth at a minimum, if you can measure to the ogive and make sure you are not jamming them into the lands, you may be able to go longer.
Fire one and inspect. Best if you have a Chrono to match velocities for any pressure warnings.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - biodsl - 02-17-2018
I took another batch of Moscow Match to the range yesterday. This time, the 107 SMK. During my last outing, I wasn't happy with the extreme spreads I was getting. I wondered if this might be a result of inconsistent chamfering of the case needed to fit a .264 inch bullet into a .262 hole. I purchased a Sinclair die and .263 expander mandrel. I think this helped to a small degree. It's certainly easier than chamfering.
Alexander Arms 16" Lite
- Wolf Semi-Steel 107gr Sierra SMK (29.0grs Wolf powder @2.27). Temp: 43 degrees
AV 2556 HI 2567 LO 2546 SD 8 ES 21
2563, 2550, 2567, 2546, 2556
Three groups were at about an inch which is what I'm starting to believe is all this shooter can do. Group four rewarded me at .6 inches. I'm thinking of bumping the load .2 or .4 grains to see what happens.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]11089[/ATTACH]
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Sticks - 02-18-2018
Nice. Thank you for posting. Did you measure the case mouth after the mandrel? Notice a difference while sizing?
Did you get a baseline speed on the wolf OEM ammo?
I'm done, unless I decide to pull all the ELDs out. I settled on 27.4 gr. My Howa loves them. Ragged 5 shot hole.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Kswhitetails - 02-18-2018
I’m glad this thread is still getting some traction. This is a somewhat worthy endeavor as it could mean rather simple .70cent accurate plinking ammunition. Sticks, have you had a chance to stretch these out at all?
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Sticks - 02-18-2018
Kswhitetails Wrote:Im glad this thread is still getting some traction. This is a somewhat worthy endeavor as it could mean rather simple .70cent accurate plinking ammunition. Sticks, have you had a chance to stretch these out at all?
I paid $.23 for the Wolf ammo, and .27 for the 123 ELDs. $.60 for sub MOA AR ammo, and .3 out of my Howa - I'm happy. I'll be using that up between practice and the SRM that I go to.
By stretching out, I have taken it out to 725 on paper for calibrating my Kestral if that is what you mean. I don't see a difference here between the Factory Black, Reloaded brass, and Moscow Match. If done right, you get quality ammo for long range consistency and the price is right.
7 and 8 SDs on two different powder charges and same velocity as Factory Black.
I run into a smoking deal on bullets then I may go through this again - insofar as pulling and recycling the components with a high BC bullet, especially if using a mandrel or expander can get a better neck tension, though I am not complaining with getting a 5 shot SD of 7 in a gas gun. If someone can get the Nosler 130s to run, I may try those too. Still hoping someone will come out with a bullet in the 115s and a G7in the .3s that BFT was pushing for, though the jump to the lands seems to be the killer here.
Those 107 SMKs look good for pull, size and push, velocity seems a little low. Hence my wanting to know what the factory Wolf speed is in bidsl's rifle.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Melglass - 07-02-2018
Anyone try 90gr TNT?
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - biodsl - 07-02-2018
Melglass Wrote:Anyone try 90gr TNT?
No, but I did some 95 Vmax. See attached. The accuracy didn't see to be there at the stock load of powder (it averaged around 27.88 in my lot). The groups got better as I increased the load. So in my case with this Black Hole Weaponry barrel, it wasn't a simple pull-push operation.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]12169[/ATTACH]
Edit: I should add those are five shot groups.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Melglass - 07-02-2018
Good info. Thanks
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - bj139 - 08-30-2018
Sticks Wrote:I paid $.23 for the Wolf ammo, and .27 for the 123 ELDs. $.60 for sub MOA AR ammo, and .3 out of my Howa - I'm happy. I'll be using that up between practice and the SRM that I go to.
Now, with the American Gunner ammo at $0.70 per round including a plastic ammo can and empty brass to reload, this is not worth it.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - biodsl - 11-19-2018
Melglass Wrote:Anyone try 90gr TNT?
I have now. NOTE: this is with a new lot of Wolf steel case. The powder has changed as the average case now has about 30.4 grains of powder instead of 27.8. As with all loads it's up to you to start low and work your way up to find out what's safe in your weapon. With that said...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]13181[/ATTACH]
Speer 90 grain TNT
32.3 grains of stock powder @2.212" OAL
2779 fps from a 22" BHW barrel at 45 degrees
shot off a bench, bipod and rear bag at 100 yards.
Edit: I haven't done a true pull/push with the TNT yet. The stock 100 grain bullet is traveling 2645 out of this barrel.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - LR1955 - 11-19-2018
biodsl Wrote:I have now. NOTE: this is with a new lot of Wolf steel case. The power has changed as the average case now has about 30.4 grains of powder instead of 27.8. As with all loads it's up to you to start low and work your way up to find out what's safe in your weapon. With that said...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]13181[/ATTACH]
Speer 90 grain TNT
32.3 grains of stock powder @2.212" OAL
2779 fps from a 22" BHW barrel at 45 degrees
shot off a bench, bipod and rear bag at 100 yards.
Edit: I haven't done a true pull/push with the TNT yet. The stock 100 grain bullet is traveling 2645 out of this barrel.
BD:
Amazing what a decent bullet and barrel can do.
Now you see why I needle guys who seem intent on destroying their brass thinking they are making it shoot better.
You did this with basic Eastern Bloc steel cases and loads.
LR55
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - Sticks - 11-20-2018
Nothing at all wrong with the Comm Bloc ammo except the bullet. If they actually put a proper sized pill in that case, it might give Hornady a run for their money.
Motivated Moscow Match Redux - rickt300 - 11-20-2018
I'm still doing this. When I pull the bullets I cull any case that is especially hard to get the bullet out of, pour the powder out, chamfer the case heavily, charge with whatever I want and seat a bullet. I have gotten some good shooting loads doing this.