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+--- Thread: Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid (/showthread.php?tid=13899)
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Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - Sticks - 11-30-2017
Unfortunately, the old adage applies, if you want to play, you gotta pay.
Second hand, refurbs, and such are about the only way to get a quality optic at knock off prices.
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - bj139 - 11-30-2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRpBxLbxhAo
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - LRRPF52 - 11-30-2017
That video is a bit dated, but he has a very good approach.
One consideration for rifle optics that often gets overlooked is whether you are shooting a bolt gun or a gas gun.
Gas guns are much harder on optics because they slam them with the initial recoil, then send another series of impact forces on them when the bolt hits the breech and then the carrier slams into the extension.
This is the worst on AR10s and SCARs, then AR15s with an excessively violent cyclic rate.
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - bj139 - 11-30-2017
SWFA SS was supposedly tested by the military on 50 BMG.
I don't know if this was full auto or not.
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - Randy99CL - 12-01-2017
So you guys are saying that there is not a decent scope to be had for $250-$350??? Other than used?
Wow I'm surprised.
I'm careful with my scope/guns, haven't drug them through the woods or banged them around. I've owned 8 so far and never had a single problem with any of them.
No bottom tier scopes but nothing over a couple hundred bucks either.
But I've not shot long ranges and cranked the adjustments, always used hold-off.
I bought two Redfield Widefields (one 1.75-5x and a 2-7x) in 1979 that are among the best I've ever owned. They cost about $150 each ($400 in 2017 $$$) and I still have the 1.75-5x and it's still perfect. For a few years I had it mounted on a .223 Ruger Ranch rifle and it never failed. I will use it on my Grendel for hog hunting until I can afford something better.
I have a 1" steel-tube Weaver 4x that I also bought in '79. My son uses it on one of his rifles and it is still perfect.
I am no where near as demanding of my scopes as you guys are. I think my next new ones will be Vortex and I'll rely on the excellent warranty.
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - bj139 - 12-01-2017
Nope. No decent scope for around $300.
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - PVBoom - 12-01-2017
Uh Randy? The topic is long range scopes. In my book that is 600 to 1000 yards. Let's say 0-300 short, 300-600 medium, 600-1000 long, 1000+ extreme/extended long. That isn't meant to be set in stone, just an approximation of what I think the common definitions are (+/- 100 yards).
So, no. Not for $300 for long range for proper practice and development of skills to a point of competence.
Not for good+ glass on a robust scope with precise turrets that will repeatedly return to zero, ideally with zero stops. That being a FFP 5x20 scope or better with Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA turrets/reticle where the reticle is suitable for holdover. I went with a SWFA SS 5x20 HD which was about $1200 @ 25% off. Otherwise I would recommend a refurb Vortex (someone trying to buy one here found a site with refurbs).
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - Sticks - 12-01-2017
PVBoom Wrote:.... Otherwise I would recommend a refurb Vortex (someone trying to buy one here found a site with refurbs).
http://aaoptics.com
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - Double Naught Spy - 12-01-2017
I read this thread yesterday while waiting for some files to process. Good read. Thank you!
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - LR1955 - 12-01-2017
Double Naught Spy Wrote:I read this thread yesterday while waiting for some files to process. Good read. Thank you!
DNS:
Was just about to recommend that Randy ask you since he says he will be using it for close in hunting.
Your opinion?
LR55
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - Randy99CL - 12-02-2017
Actually I want two scopes, one for hog hunting and another for longer range targets. The hog scope is pretty easy, as I wrote earlier I have an old Redfield 1.75-5x that will be good but I'm afraid the recoil of the AR may destroy it. And I'd like a lighted reticle.
There are lots of good 1-4 and 1-6 AR-type scopes out there for not too much money.
But I have seen that good 4-16x (and up) do cost more than a few hundred $$$. I watched some "6.5 guys" videos last night and one showed that they own multiple $2K-$4K scopes, wow. My car isn't worth $4K.
I have a Mueller 8.5-25x Tactical that I bought for one of my 10/22s. I've only had it for 6 months and will mount it on the 6.5 to see if I can break it while it's still under warranty.
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - Randy99CL - 12-02-2017
Sticks Wrote:http://aaoptics.com
Thanks for that! I've read that Vortex has a 40% Veteran/LE discount (off retail, obviously) but there are restrictions. I'll check into it more when I'm ready to buy.
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - Lightning8 - 12-02-2017
I found deals on used Vortex Viper PST Gen 1 6-24x50 MRAD for $750 each. This is a great starter scope and deal can be found on refurbs or direct from Vortex with mil discount if you served/serving.
I have multiple Primary Arms "better" scopes that serve me well - I have multiple PA 4-14 "ACSS" scope with the 5.56/308 ACSS reticle and I have used these out to 800 yards on 223, 308, and 6.5Grendel. The PA 4-14s can be found for significantly less than $350. Are the PA 4-14s a great scope - no, but they may be one of the best choices for the money.
For the "hog" scope - consider the PA 1x6 ACSS if money is an object. I have these scopes on 223 AR uppers and used one a 6.8 upper too.
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - s3silver - 01-05-2018
Randy,
Take a look at the Vortex Viper PA to HS models. They run around $300-600 depending on the model. Keep checking midwayusa and ebay as they have sales on them sometimes.
I have a few of their PA and HST models and am very impressed with them. Good clear glass, holds zero all the time, tracking is very repeatable, and lifetime warranty. I use them for 600 yard shooting with the occasional 1000 yard and they work fine. I don't shoot competitions and for what I do, they fit the bill just fine. I keep looking at higher end scopes, but can't justify the purchase just yet.
Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid - s3silver - 01-05-2018
LRRPF52,
Thanks for the solid advice on learning to shoot at distance. Everything I know is self taught. Your advice confirms I'm on the right track.