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6.5 Grendel really released to SAAMI? - pinzgauer - 12-01-2011
Greybeard Wrote:Go to the Patent and Trademark web site and snoop about.
Sorry, this just tells me you don't really know how to search the site. Don't feel too bad, each time I learn something new and find new ones. Including some new cartridges I had never heard of.
Here's the deal... There are many, many live trademarked terms associated with cartridges. Some specify caliber, others are just the name. But if you were to try to market your own 357 corbon, you'd probably get some grief. Or go try to release a 6mm LBC-AR and see what happens.
Trademark wheels turn slowly. And the mark is not "deleted", it's "abandonded" or "dead".
Likewise, even having a trademark does not preclude SAAMI. 454 Casull is a prime example. It is still a live trademark, and a SAAMI cartridge. I can prove both.
My conjecture is that it has to do with releasing rights to allow free use, but does not require abandoning the mark. But clearly some (Ex: Hornady with 17 hmr) choose to do abandon.
So we are debating something that is very arcane, and without published rules by SAAMI. Most of the "news" about what SAAMI "wants" is simply gossip, and sometimes veiled attacks.
This is not new, go research the early history of the .220 Swift. You'll find out it was the 1935 version of the 6.5 LBC-AR story. Then look at 300 whisper, and 300 AAC. You'll see that Winchester & Remington have a long history of taking the work of others, changing it enough to call it unique. Then they trademark it!! (winchester at least appears to have backed off on this)
I'm not a lawyer, or a trademark expert. (But I'm pretty good with boolean database searches).
I *am* a shooter. And the Grendel shoots. Very well. Consistently. In box stock form. No tampering with chamber, throat, headspace, etc. Others did that for us.
You can decide to play Grendel or not by your own rules. This is a tempest in a teapot.
If you want some specifics, here's some trademarks to ponder:
- PPC (Remington via Dakota) 78518813
- AAC (Advanced Armament via Remington) These may be borderline, as they are listed as firearm trademarks, but not ammo. As is blackout. But try to produce a 6mm AAC and see what happens!
- Spitfire (Remington)
- 454 Cassul 74052354
But let's get closer to home:
- LBC-AR (any guesses as to owner? Buehler? Anyone?) 77794140 filed Dec 09
- 6.5 SAOD (a certain company in GA) 77893230 filed July '09
Many, many others which are now abandoned or dead:
- 17 HMR
- 45 Glock
- 22 Jet
And remember what our famous President said: "The problem with internet forums is that much of the information cannot be substantiated" Abraham Lincoln 1856
6.5 Grendel really released to SAAMI? - Bill Alexander - 12-02-2011
Thank you Pinzgauer, that is some very enlightening information, I find the last pieces on the LBC and SAOD particularly cynical given the criticism that has been leveled at Grendel. At least we had a motivation to ensure clarity of the design pending SAAMI acceptance and were clear about our position on the trademark and license requirements, I wonder how these latter two are justified.
To clarify the position, we have officially (and subject to legal advise) made the press release to the industry that we are relinquishing the trademarks related to the Grendel and additionally have confirmed this position to SAAMI which has accepted the caliber to existing specifications under the name of Grendel. The registration of the mark at USPTO is now residual until the legal formalities are completed. Trademarks may be relinquished formally or by non enforcement, either way the mark becomes null and void and will lapse with time. A typical example would be the 17 HMR.