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+--- Thread: 6mm ARC (/showthread.php?tid=20807)
6mm ARC - cb4017 - 07-04-2020
PrecisionFirearms Wrote:We are taking orders for these in our own inhouse Button Rifled 5R and Cut Rifled 5R, Criterion, Bartlien 5R Cut Rifled, and Krieger Cut Rifled. First ones should be shipping in 6 weeks. In Samurai Button Rifled, PF Button Rifled, Criterion, and Bartlien. Krieger and our own inhouse Cut will be longer.
Mark Hostetter
Precision Machine (Firearms)
Hmm, I've got a spare upper receiver, Grendel mags and bolts. Sounds like all I need is a barrel. Off to your website.
6mm ARC - Gtscotty - 07-07-2020
Hornady put out some data for 108gr/110gr bullets for the ARC on their website.
https://www.hornady.com/assets/site/hornady/files/load-data/6mm-arc.pdf
Not much, if any, velocity advantage over the Grendel if you want to shoot temp stable powders. The 108gr ELD G7 is a little higher than the 123gr ELD, but not radically so. Too bad they didn't put out data for 95gr - 105gr at the same time.
6mm ARC - Popeye212 - 07-07-2020
Gtscotty Wrote:Hornady put out some data for 108gr/110gr bullets for the ARC on their website.
https://www.hornady.com/assets/site/hornady/files/load-data/6mm-arc.pdf
Not much, if any, velocity advantage over the Grendel if you want to shoot temp stable powders. The 108gr ELD G7 is a little higher than the 123gr ELD, but not radically so. Too bad they didn't put out data for 95gr - 105gr at the same time.
I don't see that much of an advantage with the published data. Hornady is a little conservative with their data. Be interesting to see real world data.
6mm ARC - Brazz04 - 07-07-2020
It looks like the Hornady published numbers are slower than real world velocities. Though its only one barrel, this video is showing over 2600 fps with the 108's out of a 16" barrel. The published max velocities only have it going 2505 out of that barrel length. I think this round with a 103 ELDX will be a nice hunting setup.
https://youtu.be/0H9-ErtMoZk
6mm ARC - A5BLASTER - 07-07-2020
Brazz04 Wrote:It looks like the Hornady published numbers are slower than real world velocities. Though its only one barrel, this video is showing over 2600 fps with the 108's out of a 16" barrel. The published max velocities only have it going 2505 out of that barrel length. I think this round with a 103 ELDX will be a nice hunting setup.
https://youtu.be/0H9-ErtMoZk
Yea I wouldn't trust his numbers at all. There is a second vid he did comparing ARC and grendel and he says he can only get mid 2300 with a 123 eld-m from his 18 inch grendel barrel.
Nothing against the ARC, I like it, it's well designed and thought out, on paper it does have an advantage over grendel for longer distance target playing.
Normal hunting ranges you won't beable to measure the difference in killing power between the two rounds.
6mm ARC - Brazz04 - 07-07-2020
Ah that's the guy that was being mentioned with the odd chrono numbers. Makes sense now.
6mm ARC - ericskennard - 07-08-2020
Very Cool, are you commercial taking ads for there yet?
6mm ARC - BluntForceTrauma - 07-08-2020
Ads eventually, yes.
6mm ARC - Ditcher - 07-14-2020
So is the DOD using this as a new battle round or just for target practice? Are they all snipers? Still trying to figure out why not go with 6.5G. I can understand if you shoot competition but I don't think this is what it was designed for? So far the biggest advantage to me is maybe better mag? Maybe I just need to shut up and buy one?
6mm ARC - FRB6.5 - 07-14-2020
It is essentially an updated Mk12 SPR (and likely was JSOC that asked for it). There are some performance gains over 6.5 for the use conditions expected. The better magazines have yet to materialize but if that does happen 6.5 Grendel users will benefit as well.
6mm ARC - VASCAR2 - 07-14-2020
Biggest advantage Ive seen will be less wind drift and higher BC bullet shed velocity a little slower. Im not selling my 6.5 Grendel AR-15s, it still has the edge in energy at the distances I normally shoot. The 6 ARC might prove popular in PRC matches but I dont shoot matches.
6mm ARC - BluntForceTrauma - 07-14-2020
Not selling my Grendels, either. Ever.
As good as Grendel is, when manufacturers get off their butts and put as much attention into a new generation of 120-class bullets as they have the heavies, we'll see another performance jump for 6.5 Grendel. A 6.5mm 120gr Hybrid with a G1 BC.595 is doable at 2525 fps.
Am adding 6mmARC cuz I want to. I have a thing for efficient, well-designed AR cartridges. (I'm in love with the concept of the 6.5 Creedmoor, as well, but am into ARs and micro-actions.)
Advantage of 6mmARC over 6.5 Grendel as V2 said is better exterior ballistics for the same bullet weight make hitting distant targets easier.
Preliminary and rudimentary gel tests show target effects at range are not lacking, either.
6mm ARC - Ditcher - 07-14-2020
If the DOD is using it and most battle happen under 300 yards seems like the 6.5G would shine better. Hell the 6.8spc would as well. Think I would want the extra weight. I don't think the 6mm would really pen that much better. I have heard people say 6.5C pens better than 308 but most test I seen the heavier 308 out pen it. Maybe I'm missing something. I may still build one just to play around with something. Always looking for something to replace my 300 blackout pistol with 8" barrel.
6mm ARC - BluntForceTrauma - 07-14-2020
When Hornady says the 6mmARC was developed at the request of a special DOD "entity," I believe them.
When Hornady says the 6mmARC is "in use" by a special DOD entity, I ... sort of believe them. I'm sure there's an asterisk and then the fine-print disclaimer copy at the bottom.
Any new cartridge that's being developed for Big Army use is gonna get the same huge attention the NGSW program gets. Any new cartridge being developed for use by SOCOM such as 6.5 Creedmoor is going to have public attention, as well.
So, I deduce that any 6mmARC use in the military is very minor, relatively speaking. I have no doubt about its military capability or usefulness (I make the same arguments for 6mmARC I make for 6.5 Grendel, after all), but the actual extent of its use by DOD remains to be independently verified.
6mm ARC - Ditcher - 07-14-2020
Yeah this is the government after all and we know how they can be. Have to wait and see what comes of it. Maybe even get more confirmed info as well. If we get better mags as other have stated it would be worth it.
I wonder if the military is still playing around with the polymer 6.8.
6mm ARC - Lemonaid - 07-14-2020
BFT, as there are a lot of DOD "entities", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._Department_of_Defense_agencies
Most are unlikely as the one contracting for the ARC, such as the Defense Commissary Agency (DeCA).
So given the performance requests of the ARC who are the likely suspects in your opinion?
Also, why keep quiet about it? Lot's of times new contracts are celebrated by the developer. An example. https://www.sigsauer.com/press-releases/sig-sauer-selected-by-u-s-army-for-next-generation-weapons-with-new-ammunition-technology-lightweight-machine-gun-rifle-and-suppressors/
6mm ARC - BluntForceTrauma - 07-14-2020
Ditcher Wrote:If we get better mags as other have stated it would be worth it.
I think the mag issue is being blown out of proportion. A good Grendel mag is a good Grendel mag. Nothing inherently wrong with the geometry and what-not. A poor quality-control Grendel mag is the same as a poor-quality control mag in any caliber.
6mm ARC - BluntForceTrauma - 07-14-2020
Lemonaid Wrote:So given the performance requests of the ARC who are the likely suspects in your opinion?
Someone needing lightweight, long-range capability. I'd actually guess SEALs. But as more of a testing or proof-of-concept exercise than any fielding.
.50 Beowulf was used in Afghanistan by a contractor to fold an insurgent in half, after taking out the spine.
6.5 Grendel was used in Afghanistan by one of the Air Force special ops groups to hit someone 1200 yards away.
So, sometimes, these boutique cartridges get "used," but I wouldn't call it "used." More like limited field testing?
I'm wary to give too much credence to military "use" of 6mmARC. Look at the hype surrounding the introduction of the 6.8 SPC, with much speculation it would be the next SOCOM Wunder Vapen and coming soon to Big Green. Despite the hype it went nowhere in the military.
Having watched Bill Alexander try to navigate the labyrinthine military procurement system with 6.5 Grendel was educational. All anybody can do is wait and see what shakes out.
Meanwhile, it's a worthy little cartridge.
6mm ARC - FRB6.5 - 07-15-2020
Unlike the 6.8 there was an actual contract and delivery of weapons, ammo and supporting equipment. Given Barrett was also awarded the contract for the ASR it's safe to say it isn't speculation. That however doesn't mean it's been adopted branch wide (nor was the ASR).
https://news.barrett.net/2020/06/03/barrett-announces-shipment-of-6mm-arc-rifles-to-us-dod/
6mm ARC - biodsl - 07-15-2020
BTF's signature line lays it out correctly. For a civilian shooter who hunts, I think the Grendel would have the edge. It's pretty impressive what this cartridge can do on hogs, deer, elk, moose, caribou, aoudad and the like. Remember, the Grendel was developed as a hunting round. It has a track record on game, something that will be while in coming for the 6 ARC.
However, open your favorite ballistics calculator and run the numbers on 6mm bullets at 2,700 fps. Run them at 2,600. Run them at 2,500. It's shocking to me. If your goal is an improved Designated Marksman's cartridge, you just found it. The Hornady 108 grain ELDM at 2,500fps is still supersonic at 1,000 yards at standard atmosphere. I'm pretty sure you can achieve that velocity out of a 14.5" barrel. Can you say RECCE? At 7,000 feet (think Afghanistan) it's supersonic at 1,200 yard. It's no wonder the military interested in a M4 platform that can perform to this level. The problem is going to be finding a scope that can exploit the cartridges capabilities from zero to 1,200 yards.
A 6.5 107 Sierra Matchking drifts almost 7 inches more than a 6mm 108 ELDM drifts in a 10 mile cross wind at 600 yards. That number grows to 2 feet at 1,000 yards.
I enjoy my Grendels very much, but there's no denying the increased range and hit probability of the 6 ARC.