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+--- Thread: Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers (/showthread.php?tid=13727)
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - Randy99CL - 05-22-2018
There's been a lot of talk here about these short-throated barrels. I don't mean to lessen the importance of BCA's QC error, it is a big deal. I could imagine a weak case rupturing in a worst-case scenario. I hope that they can replace all the problem barrels before something like that happens.
But I'm not ready to write-off BCA. Of all the thousands of barrels they make a year it's likely that only a handful have the short throat; I've only heard of the 20" 6.5G 5R with the problem. Might have been only a short production run with the worn reamer, maybe a few hours, who knows? But they should have inspected them close enough to catch it.
I like the company enough that I hope they learn from their error, fix all the bad barrels and survive.
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - Dcommoncents - 05-22-2018
I've been wondering if they over extended themselves with the veteran barrel give away and let qc slip as a result. That would be a cruel twist of karmic fate, albeit perhaps one they should have foreseen.
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - Sticks - 05-23-2018
Check those Faxon barrel extensions for burrs. They had their own issues not long ago.
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - ported45 - 05-24-2018
Randy99CL Wrote:There's been a lot of talk here about these short-throated barrels. I don't mean to lessen the importance of BCA's QC error, it is a big deal. I could imagine a weak case rupturing in a worst-case scenario. I hope that they can replace all the problem barrels before something like that happens.
But I'm not ready to write-off BCA. Of all the thousands of barrels they make a year it's likely that only a handful have the short throat; I've only heard of the 20" 6.5G 5R with the problem. Might have been only a short production run with the worn reamer, maybe a few hours, who knows? But they should have inspected them close enough to catch it.
I like the company enough that I hope they learn from their error, fix all the bad barrels and survive.
My first BCA upper had conventional rifling and was short throated, but not nearly as short as the second upper they sent with the 5R rifling. Third upper is back to the conventional rifling that I ordered and is not short throated.
However, my first run to the range resulted in a stuck bullet due to the bullets being inertia-pulled by the round chambering. I chambered and fired two rounds and then extracted the next round without firing to inspect. Bullet was PULLED ever so slightly. Chambered it up again and tried to extract it and that is when the bullet stuck in the beginning of the rifling and pulled from the cartridge. The rest of that story is being outlined in the Reloading Forum under "Neck Tension".
I went back a second time with crimped-in bullets with the Lee FCD and got just over an 1" groups with 8208 starting load and Nosler 120 BT and just over 2" with Nosler 129 ABLR. I need to figure out my neck tension crap and then I can tackle load development. Crimp was what I consider on the heavy side (looked like military crimps) before the bullets would not move forward out of the neck when being chambered. This could be part of the group size and the reason that I want to defeat this obstacle first.
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - Splatt - 05-25-2018
Sounds like you have another short throat.
No, factory ammo should ever get stuck in the lands.
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - ported45 - 05-25-2018
Splatt Wrote:Sounds like you have another short throat.
No, factory ammo should ever get stuck in the lands.
It wouldn't have had the bullet not moved forward in the mouth when chambered. Just like an inertia bullet puller. Second time shoved it into the rifling.
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - Twkenny - 05-25-2018
ported45 Wrote:It wouldn't have had the bullet not moved forward in the mouth when chambered. Just like an inertia bullet puller. Second time shoved it into the rifling.
I'm sorry for not understanding exactly...so when the round chambers the bullet is sliding forward into the rifling due to the sudden stop of the cartridge?
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - ported45 - 05-25-2018
Twkenny Wrote:I'm sorry for not understanding exactly...so when the round chambers the bullet is sliding forward into the rifling due to the sudden stop of the cartridge?
Yup. Using Hornady dies with 0.262" elliptical expander that leaves the case mouth at 0.258" before inserting bullet. I brush out the necks before sizing, just like all the other brass I ever use. I ended up putting a pretty good Lee FCD crimp on it to keep the bullets from moving forward when chambered.
I also load 5.56 and .300 Blackout for the AR and never had any problems like this before using the same reloading technique and Anderson complete lower.
I am going to work on making sure that the case mouth has been cleaned and degreased to eliminate any friction loss due to leftover residue or case lube that could have (however unlikely) got in the mouth of the cartridge.
The guys here are saying that with 0.258" ID neck should be plenty to hold the bulllet without any crimp at all. It was also suggested to check the Anderson carbine spring for appropriate # of coils. Guess I will have to Google what would be appropriate.
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - ported45 - 05-29-2018
Gunscrubber on the inside of the necks seems to have done the trick.
In better news, I turned out a 0.79" 100 yard group yesterday!
I had been using Nosler 120 BT and 129 ABLR and starting loads to see if I could get any decent groups as Nosler was suggesting lower end loads were more accurate in their test barrel. I got some 129 Hornady SP in the mail Friday and got the same results. Averaging 1.75" groups with 8208. Well, I bumped up another half a grain with that Hornady bullet and it tightened right up.
Now to do a ladder with both 129 bullets and see if I can get better with the Hornady and to see if I can find what the Nosler likes.
I finally have some hope for this BCA.
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - Twkenny - 05-29-2018
ported45 Wrote:Gunscrubber on the inside of the necks seems to have done the trick.
In better news, I turned out a 0.79" 100 yard group yesterday!
I had been using Nosler 120 BT and 129 ABLR and starting loads to see if I could get any decent groups as Nosler was suggesting lower end loads were more accurate in their test barrel. I got some 129 Hornady SP in the mail Friday and got the same results. Averaging 1.75" groups with 8208. Well, I bumped up another half a grain with that Hornady bullet and it tightened right up.
Now to do a ladder with both 129 bullets and see if I can get better with the Hornady and to see if I can find what the Nosler likes.
I finally have some hope for this BCA.
Sounds great!
Mine seems to like 120 Barnes TTSX the best out of all I've tried. I'm going to try some different powders and loads and see if I can tighten up the groups a bit as well. Shot a 3/4" 5 shot group in the wind and rain. Not sure how much more i can expect from a low priced AR Upper.
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - Coancr - 05-29-2018
I have been following this thread as I to have a BCA upper. I emailed them last week after not being able to find any factory ammo or reload combination that would shoot moa. I found a couple that would do 1.75 @ 100. They were very helpful and sent me a shipping label. I decided that I would make up some 107 SMK and 120 SMK that came in the day I received the email. I am very glad I did. The 107 load averages about 1.25 inches at 100. But the 120 SMK with 28 grains of 8208 xbr shoots one ragged hole groups at 100. Gonna give it a good cleaning and try some 10 shot groups with this load, if it holds up over 10 rounds I think I will be keeping this upper.
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - Twkenny - 05-29-2018
Coancr Wrote:I have been following this thread as I to have a BCA upper. I emailed them last week after not being able to find any factory ammo or reload combination that would shoot moa. I found a couple that would do 1.75 @ 100. They were very helpful and sent me a shipping label. I decided that I would make up some 107 SMK and 120 SMK that came in the day I received the email. I am very glad I did. The 107 load averages about 1.25 inches at 100. But the 120 SMK with 28 grains of 8208 xbr shoots one ragged hole groups at 100. Gonna give it a good cleaning and try some 10 shot groups with this load, if it holds up over 10 rounds I think I will be keeping this upper.
That is great to hear. Can't really expect much more! I'll pick up some Sierra's on the way home. What primers did you use?
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - Coancr - 05-29-2018
CCI magnum
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - NightFisher - 05-29-2018
Coancr Wrote:Gonna give it a good cleaning and try some 10 shot groups with this load, if it holds up over 10 rounds I think I will be keeping this upper.
It may take you more than 10 rounds to get your accuracy back after a good cleaning.....
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - Coancr - 05-29-2018
True. It only had about 30 since the last time it was thoroughly cleaned. I would hope it will come back to at least sub moa fairly quickly hopefully
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - Twkenny - 05-29-2018
Coancr Wrote:True. It only had about 30 since the last time it was thoroughly cleaned. I would hope it will come back to at least sub moa fairly quickly hopefully
I think that is what has been frustrating to me. These seem so much more inconsistent than some of my other rifles. My Daniel Defense seems to shoot great clean, dirty, or really dirty!
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - Coancr - 06-03-2018
Just a FYI for any interested the 120 SMK stayed a very good load. Well under MOA.
Also seems like from some more loading I have done my barrel really likes alot of jump. Hope this helps
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - ported45 - 06-11-2018
Broke down and bought a box of Hornday Black Saturday just to see how the factory stuff would chamber. It needed light mortaring to pop the cartridge back out and there is a bright scuff ring all the way around the ogive where it stuck in the throat. It was just the throat that stuck as it is a complete circle and no signs of touching the rifling. Again just guessing, but maybe a worn reamer that left the throat too small? Out of SAAMI spec, whatever the cause.
I went back on my word about not dealing with BCA again. I emailed them and they agreed to let me return just the barrel and swap for a stainless version of the 20" straight fluted. That way if the throat on it is out of spec, I can just use a throat reamer and fix it myself next time. Now to just start unscrewing things!
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - ported45 - 07-11-2018
Well, it took me some time as I could find no one local to borrow a vise block from and then we had our family vacation. Toward the end of vacation I ordered vise blocks and the barrel should be in BCA's hands today. Sure hope the stainless barrel doesn't need the throat reamed, but I will do what I have to if it does.
Whatever happens, this should be my last experience with Bear Creek Arsenal.
Bear Creek Arsenal Complete Uppers - ported45 - 08-08-2018
Final update from me on BCA. The stainless barrel had an appropriate length neck in it, but that didn't help much.
It shot so bad that I thought my scope had given up on me, so I replaced it with a new Nikon. Still spraying rounds. 5.25" group with the Hornady Black. BCA says that they are giving me a full refund when they get the upper back in their hands.
I'M DONE!!!! Four tries is plenty for me. Spent in excess of $200 in bullets, brass, powder, gas, and factory ammo on this endeavor.
Congrats to all those who accidentally got a good barrel from BCA. Pretty sure that is not the norm.