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+--- Thread: research for build (/showthread.php?tid=7946)
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research for build - olde sarge - 05-30-2014
I would like input on upper and lower receivers with quality and durability being foremost. Am presently looking at Mega and PSA and don't know how to make the comparison. PSA sure seems a great deal with their Blems. Thanks, John
research for build - explorecaves - 05-30-2014
Will pay more for the Mega but will not likely need to true the receiver face. PSA blem will likely need to true the receiver face (I did with the last 3 blems I built, very minor but still done).
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?7594-Longevity-Accuracy-Tips-for-the-AR15
Typically will need to heat the mega to get the barrel to fit. PSA will be a standard press fit.
Side note, I could not find the blemish on the PSA uppers and lowers I have...
research for build - Apparition - 05-30-2014
I have a mega on my recent grendel build. No heat needed for the Brownells barrel install.
research for build - olde sarge - 06-01-2014
You can add Anderson upper lower to what I am looking at.
research for build - bwaites - 06-01-2014
olde sarge,
Knowing your price level might be helpful.
I would strongly consider Precisions uppers and lowers. http://www.precisionfirearms.com/
Precision has been a strong Grendel supporter and builds exquisitely machined stuff.
Mark is a great guy and very helpful, as well.
research for build - olde sarge - 06-02-2014
bwaites, want to keep the barrel group and stripped upper and lower below $1000. The closer to $800 the better. Just a little confused, as I read that forged is stronger than billet but most seem to go for the billet. It would seem to me that stronger would mean it would build a more accurate rifle once the upper was faced and trued. Where am I going wrong here? John
research for build - bwaites - 06-02-2014
Forged vs billet is a good question. My experience is that forged uppers are stronger if weights and designs are equal. But what typically happens with billet uppers is that the manufacturers move some of that weight around, making the walls sligthly thicker, and making no critical areas thinner, while machining everything to make sure that it is square. Many forged pieces also forego the foreward assist so that weight can be used to strengthen the walls.
The biggest advantage to billets is that they are generally more dimensionally accurate, with squared faces, etc. Square makes more accurate, of course.
research for build - ThatRandomGuy - 06-02-2014
Cheapest 6.5 barrel will be probably be from Black Hole Weaponry. Technically is a .264LBC, but you should have no issues with factory Hornady ammo. That will be about 270-310. Interesting note is their method of rifling. You will need to get a bolt from somewhere, and no matter what they tell you, call to order and tell them you want "type 2". If you want cut rifled (Bartlein, Krieger)... You essentially have to get one from Precision Firearms. I can't find them elsewhere. If you're more a button rifling/don't care, you can get shilen barrel+bolt combos for 460 on Midway (backordered) or 500 from shilen direct. There is also lilja, which is 475 no matter which contour you pick (but you'd have to go to Maxim or PF for a bolt).
Like Bwaites said, PF is a great company... However if you do decide on lilja, I would suggest buying direct from lilja. No offense to Mark but I'm not going to pay $75 for my lilja blank/PF chambered barrel to be threaded when they come threaded (and cheaper, and have more length choices) when it's all under lilja's roof.
There are many quality uppers I've seen, but billets tend to seem better on the rifles I've handled at the local gunsmith's shop. CMT, PF, Mega, Rainier, can't really go wrong with any of them. As for lowers, same deal. However, I could suggest the Spartan-15 billet lower made for and sold by JoeBob Outfitters. It's $130, works well, and honestly is very nice. The finish on mine is better than the pictures, really the same quality as any nice lower I've seen. The elimination of roll pins and with hex screws really makes the assembly job a breeze, and the adjustment for your upper/lower fit is a nice touch. But that's me -shrug-
research for build - Apparition - 06-02-2014
ThatRandomGuy Wrote:Cheapest 6.5 barrel will be probably be from Black Hole Weaponry. Technically is a .264LBC, but you should have no issues with factory Hornady ammo. That will be about 270-310. Interesting note is their method of rifling. You will need to get a bolt from somewhere, and no matter what they tell you, call to order and tell them you want "type 2".You can get the Brownells barrel for under $275, watch for discounts, and it comes with the bolt.
research for build - ThatRandomGuy - 06-02-2014
Apparition Wrote:You can get the Brownells barrel for under $275, watch for discounts, and it comes with the bolt.
You're right, I forgot about them.
J&T does make barrels/upper kits sets as well, JP Enterprises makes good barrel/bolts but something to the tune of around 560. Model 1 Sales has something they call the grendel sporter (I believe that's based off the 7.62x39 head, so like BHW's type 1, though), lothar walther has the 6.5 CSS, there are lots of options.
research for build - LRRPF52 - 06-02-2014
As long as you stay away from 6061 T6 aluminum uppers, 7075 T6 billet or forged will be fine. You'll never know the difference in strength from an end-user perspective. The main things for maintaining accuracy aside from barrel quality and construction will be a very tight fit in the barrel extension tunnel in the upper receiver, against true faces and threads.
What are you intending to use this for?
research for build - 45r - 06-02-2014
I recently completed a build using a Mega upper from JoeBobb Outfitters.
Veterans get 5 percent discount.
Free shipping and fast delivery.
Excellent quality with very tight fit to my 16 inch type 2 BHW 264LBC LTM profile barrel with black finish.
Got 10 percent discount on barrel.
Got a Grendel bolt from Precision Firearms and MI keymod rail.
Looks good and light weight with 1/2 MOA groups using 123 SST's over AR-comp.
Barrels are custom and took 5 weeks but worth the wait.
research for build - olde sarge - 06-02-2014
Thanks to all the replies, please keep suggestions coming. LRRPF52 this is intended to replace most of the high number of weapons I own, so I can pass the majority on to family members and greatly simplify my upkeep and loading practices. I will use for hunting and general ranch carry but am, I guess fanatic some would say, about accuracy. I am thinking an AR740 profile will probably best fit my use but still searching for a similarly profiled barrel at 22". John
research for build - Rugerfan.64 - 06-03-2014
Not wanting to hijack your thread or line of thinking. But along the same lines as you are asking, I am also seeking opinions. I know PSA sells blemished uppers, but I have also noticed the mention of DPMS Lo-Pro uppers as well. I am seeking opinions on the DPMS Lo-Pro upper. It seems that extra material may well indeed lead to extra stiffness in the upper. I will eventually hang a 20" barrel on it, hopefully something along the lines of a HBAR contour. Opinions welcome and appreciated. Mind you I am trying to keep this build as cheap as possible, I will most likely use DPMS free float tube on it as well. Thanks in advance.
research for build - explorecaves - 06-03-2014
olde sarge Wrote:Thanks to all the replies, please keep suggestions coming. LRRPF52 this is intended to replace most of the high number of weapons I own, so I can pass the majority on to family members and greatly simplify my upkeep and loading practices. I will use for hunting and general ranch carry but am, I guess fanatic some would say, about accuracy. I am thinking an AR740 profile will probably best fit my use but still searching for a similarly profiled barrel at 22". John
For carrying around, I would look at the 17" barrel. You really do not loose much with the grendel. Pick up volumes 1 and 2 of the grendel reloading handbook from ar15buildbox.com and read up on the differences between barrel lengths.
research for build - ThatRandomGuy - 06-03-2014
Rugerfan.64 Wrote:Not wanting to hijack your thread or line of thinking. But along the same lines as you are asking, I am also seeking opinions. I know PSA sells blemished uppers, but I have also noticed the mention of DPMS Lo-Pro uppers as well. I am seeking opinions on the DPMS Lo-Pro upper. It seems that extra material may well indeed lead to extra stiffness in the upper. I will eventually hang a 20" barrel on it, hopefully something along the lines of a HBAR contour. Opinions welcome and appreciated. Mind you I am trying to keep this build as cheap as possible, I will most likely use DPMS free float tube on it as well. Thanks in advance.
IIRC, The DPMS upper isn't actually billet, it's extruded. Instead of machining from a block of aluminum on a lathe, think of playdoh machines that smash the blob through a star or whatever shape. Similar deal. Personally it seems that would be weaker than either forging or billet, but LR is the most engineer-y of us.
As for the barrel, the 17 or 19 liljas would be great for walking around. However, if you insist on 22 or so, you might try calling up Hart barrels. They will make a totally custom .223 AR barrel for 480 (+ $ for threading) but seeing as they list Grendel chambering I see no reason they wouldn't make one for you.
research for build - olde sarge - 06-05-2014
LRRPF52, in your opinion who would you go for in billet and forged. I think I would elect to go forged if I could be pretty sure I was getting the tight fit true faces and threads but since most seem to build billet I am not finding very much mention of forged uppers and lowers. The info you gave me was the type of info I am looking for to keep me from building an expensive turkey. Thanks, John
research for build - bwaites - 06-05-2014
olde sarge Wrote:LRRPF52, in your opinion who would you go for in billet and forged. I think I would elect to go forged if I could be pretty sure I was getting the tight fit true faces and threads but since most seem to build billet I am not finding very much mention of forged uppers and lowers. The info you gave me was the type of info I am looking for to keep me from building an expensive turkey. Thanks, John
John there are plenty of good forged pieces out there, but I would look at Precision Firearms and at Seekins Precision. They both also build top shelf billet pieces.
research for build - olde sarge - 06-09-2014
Thanks guys, I have narrowed the stripped upper/lower to PF or Mega in billet. I am really eying the Lilja AR740 for barrel but am still waiting on a reply from Blackhole as to whether or not they can chamber in a true SAAMI Grendel chamber not the tight necked version. I guess I will have to go with the Maxim bolt/carrier group if I buy the Lilja? Good or bad to say about these parts? Need to contact LRRPF52 about the build box and the load book set but saw on another forum talk about an updated version soon? Don't know if that is fact or fiction. John
research for build - LRRPF52 - 06-09-2014
olde sarge Wrote:Thanks guys, I have narrowed the stripped upper/lower to PF or Mega in billet. I am really eying the Lilja AR740 for barrel but am still waiting on a reply from Blackhole as to whether or not they can chamber in a true SAAMI Grendel chamber not the tight necked version. I guess I will have to go with the Maxim bolt/carrier group if I buy the Lilja? Good or bad to say about these parts? Need to contact LRRPF52 about the build box and the load book set but saw on another forum talk about an updated version soon? Don't know if that is fact or fiction. John
Updated version of what, and what forum was it on? We just released Volume II in January.