+- 6.5 Grendel Forum (https://65grendel.com)
+-- Forum: 6.5 GRENDEL DISCUSSION FORUMS (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: 6.5 Grendel ARs and Other Semi-Autos (https://65grendel.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Thread: What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup (/showthread.php?tid=7000)
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - BjornF16 - 01-02-2014
2500 S.F. house, several corners/turns conducive to needing a short weapon with 20 yards being the longest, unobstructed shot. Nearest neighbors at 100 yards.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - customcutter - 01-03-2014
I just recently put a bullpup stock on an SKS, and I'm thinking it would be ideal. I've seen some of the home defense shows where they showed that a 5.56 was less likely to over penetrate into other rooms, etc. Not sure about the 7.62X39. But I do like the feel of the bullpup.
Edit,
Sorry didn't see the poll section first time.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - LRRPF52 - 01-03-2014
I still have to say 5.56 for me.
I would love the 300 Whisper or Blackout, but over-penetration would still be a concern for me because I would want it with subs, and unless you are shooting frang, I don't see how you are going to stop a 220gr pill after penetrating someone's chest and face.
If I worked up a load with the 95gr V-MAX in the Grendel at 2800fps, that would be great, but the muzzle blast is a totally different ballgame with the 6.5 than the .224" bores. A can would help with that, but I have yet to really work out an HD load, other than my 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, and I still think that would come out the other side.
It definitely would not be any of the big bores because of reduced follow-up shot capability, where the 5.56 and .300 really shine over the others. One of my personal requirements is minimum height above bore, since you do need to be prepared and well-versed at making shots with no-shoots within inches of your shot placement in a hostage scenario.
We had one attempted armed robbery here in the Salt Lake Valley, where multiple armed vermin kicked in the doors of their intended victims, and took people hostage. One of the residents retreated to a bedroom, secured a blaster, and turned the tables on the scumbags.
The overall gun does need to be compact and maneuverable, with ammunition that fragments and loses most of its weight in tissue, causing violent expansion and destruction like 5.56 does at close range, without retaining enough energy to cause harm to people or sensitive structures in the home.
If you live close to cartel territory, you have a much higher likelihood of encountering multiple attackers who will be heavily armed, thanks to the State Department, ATF, and DOJ, and those humanoids have zero reservation about killing you or LEO's, as we have seen.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - stanc - 01-03-2014
9x19mm. MP5, or AR15 SBR.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - explorecaves - 01-03-2014
Kriss Super V suppressed SBR…. a nice compact .45 cal with minimal muzzle rise.
Now if there was some land (200 yards or more), then I would go with an SBR .223 AR-15.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - Klem - 01-03-2014
I agree with '52'... 5.56mm SBR with ballistic tips; 40-55gr. Muzzle brake for sound/blast as well as recoil.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - BjornF16 - 01-03-2014
LRRPF52 Wrote:I would love the 300 Whisper or Blackout, but over-penetration would still be a concern for me because I would want it with subs, and unless you are shooting frang, I don't see how you are going to stop a 220gr pill after penetrating someone's chest and face.
Why 300 BLK subs? What is the advantage of 300 BLK 220 grn sub over a .45 ACP 220 grn?
If you have a can, then why not 110 grain V-Max?
Will the V-Max still penetrate soft armor (i.e. Level II and Level III-A)?
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - KentuckyBuddha - 01-03-2014
While you are at it LRRPF52, why not the 85 grain for Grendel?
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - cory - 01-03-2014
Inside the house it's be my 45 XD Tactical or 40 XDm. I feel like over penetration is a lot less likely with a pistol round. I don't want to inadvertantly shoot a loved one. And there very easily manueverable and good follow up.
If I need to go outside the house I'd rather have my 5.56 with Nosler 64gr Bonded Performance. I live in a subdivison.
Hostage situation I'd prefer the 5.56 load mentioned above.
Now if I lived in cartel country or didn't have nearby neighbors and the ones I had were spread out, I'd probably develop a load for 16" or shorter grendel with the Hornady 140gr HPBT. At 2200 fps it's sonic to 1010 yards. (wow I wasn't expecting that when I looked it up.) I wish Nosler would make a 6.5mm bonded performance round, one of my most accurate rounds in my 5.56.
On a side note: I believe I'll picking some 140gr BTHP projectiles up to see how it shoots in my 24" PF Grendel.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - 457ciSBC - 01-03-2014
BjornF16 Wrote:Why 300 BLK subs? What is the advantage of 300 BLK 220 grn sub over a .45 ACP 220 grn?
If you have a can, then why not 110 grain V-Max?
Will the V-Max still penetrate soft armor (i.e. Level II and Level III-A)?
My 11.5 300BO home defense is loaded with 135gr FBHP's.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - LRRPF52 - 01-03-2014
Any of the lightweight varmint pills going over 2600fps would be pretty nasty. I just named the 95gr V-MAX because it has the tip that will aid in feeding for those that haven't blended their ramps. You could also go 90gr TNT. Load any of them on top of H335 and make sure your homeowner's insurance covers carpet and possible floor replacement.
The main reason for subs is for suppressed use. I'm of the mind that I really value speed in close quarters for devastating results. A 5.56 SBR with a good suppressor isn't too bad in the house. Unsuppressed, it has a much sharper, high-pitched piercing sound that is pretty unique compared to .30 bores in the house, which rock your noggin.
Quote:Will the V-Max still penetrate soft armor (i.e. Level II and Level III-A)?
Pretty much any projectile under .44" that is going over 1500fps is going to penetrate one layer of Level III-A soft armor, and even SBR's will perforate it like it wasn't there. Once you get to Level III, then you have high velocity rifle protection, but M855 will penetrate it. Only Level IV stops armor-piercing ammunition, but they use .30-06 AP as a standard, when smaller caliber AP will do much better than .30 cal AP.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - NugginFutz - 01-03-2014
Unsuppressed, I think that just about any rifle caliber rocks one's noggin, when fired indoors.
>rriinngg< Would somebody answer that @#$@# phone???!!!
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - BjornF16 - 01-03-2014
LRRPF52 Wrote:Any of the lightweight varmint pills going over 2600fps would be pretty nasty. I just named the 95gr V-MAX because it has the tip that will aid in feeding for those that haven't blended their ramps. You could also go 90gr TNT. Load any of them on top of H335 and make sure your homeowner's insurance covers carpet and possible floor replacement.
The main reason for subs is for suppressed use. I'm of the mind that I really value speed in close quarters for devastating results. A 5.56 SBR with a good suppressor isn't too bad in the house. Unsuppressed, it has a much sharper, high-pitched piercing sound that is pretty unique compared to .30 bores in the house, which rock your noggin.
What is the difference between 220 grn BLK and 220 grn .45 ACP?
I prefer the faster bullets also, which is why I have suppressors for my SBRs.
Choices as I see it are (V-Max):
1. .223 Rem 53 grain at ~2750 fps (SD = .151)
2. 6.5 Grendel 95 grain at ? fps from 10.5" barrel (SD = .195)
3. 300 BLK 110 grain at 2175 fps (SD = .166)
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - NugginFutz - 01-03-2014
Unsuppressed, I think that just about any rifle caliber rocks one's noggin, when fired indoors.
>rriinngg< Would somebody answer that @#$@# phone???!!!
But as for home defense rifle, I prefer an M4 with 55 gr V-Max. They explode on contact and seldom exit soft tissue to any significant degree.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - WildBill3/75 - 01-03-2014
not a rifle caliber but it's 12 gauge.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - KentuckyBuddha - 01-03-2014
Check out the box of truth if you want to see mythbusters style treatment of different rounds. Cory, you might be surprised about pistols. However if it is what you have near you...having them charged with DRT, Civil Defense, or the like that are rifle fast (9mm 2k fps for example) might be a good option though.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - LRRPF52 - 01-03-2014
If the choices were 300BLK over .45 ACP in an SBR, I would easily choose the 300 since it has a gas system, while most .45 ACP sub guns and SBR's are blow-back, which creates a pretty violent recoil impulse on a lightweight gun. Even the Colt 9mm SMG bucks like a mustang in your hands, since it's blowback with no locking system, whereas the MP5 handles nicely with the rolling lockers.
The only 9mm SMG's that handle smoothly use constant recoil, like the Kp31 Suomi SMG, but it's heavier than a Garand.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - KentuckyBuddha - 01-03-2014
Maybe an interesting question is 16" 300blk versus 1911 suppressed for inside the home, which would be a tactical advantage (assuming well trained personnel that can use a pistol well)?
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - cory - 01-03-2014
KentuckyBuddha Wrote:Check out the box of truth if you want to see mythbusters style treatment of different rounds. Cory, you might be surprised about pistols. However if it is what you have near you...having them charged with DRT, Civil Defense, or the like that are rifle fast (9mm 2k fps for example) might be a good option though.
Interesting Kentucky. I now believe if I lived in cartel country where there was a real possibility of dealing with an intruder with body armor, I'd be all but hanging up the handguns. I believe I'm going to look in the FN 5.7.
What is your preferred Home Defense caliber, suppressed SBR or Bullpup - NugginFutz - 01-03-2014
LRRPF52 Wrote:If the choices were 300BLK over .45 ACP in an SBR, I would easily choose the 300 since it has a gas system, while most .45 ACP sub guns and SBR's are blow-back, which creates a pretty violent recoil impulse on a lightweight gun. Even the Colt 9mm SMG bucks like a mustang in your hands, since it's blowback with no locking system, whereas the MP5 handles nicely with the rolling lockers.
The only 9mm SMG's that handle smoothly use constant recoil, like the Kp31 Suomi SMG, but it's heavier than a Garand.
If they weren't so obscenely expensive, the KRISS makes shooting .45 auto stupid smooth.