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+--- Thread: Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New (/showthread.php?tid=6989)
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - LRRPF52 - 01-01-2014
![[Image: 1_30_12_13_11_16_50.jpeg]](http://bullpupforum.com/gallery/1_30_12_13_11_16_50.jpeg)
Not sure if they are the best company to offer this, as die hard Kel-Tec owners will tell you straight up that never by Gen I anything from Kel-Tec, but it is interesting when you look at the caliber choices.
I would still like to see an AUG in Grendel, which supposedly has been in the works for years.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - explorecaves - 01-01-2014
Prefer the Tavor when I look at bull pups…
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - babue - 01-01-2014
Love bull pups. My go to rifle is an FS2000 and I would get an AUG in Grendel in a heartbeat but a Kel-Tec, I expect that to be a never happen. Kel-Tec is far from being a Tier 1 product you could trust your life to, as a range toy, maybe, but nothing more than that.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - GMinor - 01-01-2014
When I buy a bull pup rifle it will be a DTA...
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - GMinor - 01-01-2014
babue Wrote:Love bull pups. My go to rifle is an FS2000 and I would get an AUG in Grendel in a heartbeat but a Kel-Tec, I expect that to be a never happen. Kel-Tec is far from being a Tier 1 product you could trust your life to, as a range toy, maybe, but nothing more than that.
Truth
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - hm2 clark - 01-01-2014
I would guess that if Kel Tec does a Grendel in 6.5 Grendel they will do one in their SU 16 also. Good! One would guess that whatever hurt feelings they got from AA 7-8 years ago when they stopped working on a Grendel are over now. Kel Tec is real factory operation, not a one man shop. Its just the thing we need.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - Trooper - 01-01-2014
I thought that the IWI Trevor was able to go to 6.5 Grendel once there was a barrel for it.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - explorecaves - 01-01-2014
Trooper Wrote:I thought that the IWI Trevor was able to go to 6.5 Grendel once there was a barrel for it.
Need a bolt too
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - stanprophet - 01-01-2014
It does not exists, you will only ever see reviews and pictures on the internet. Kel tec only makes small caliber hand guns and about 2 SU-16'S per year.
You will have to wait for Ruger's version to hit the streets
On a serious note It would be cool, not holding my breath about seeing any in the LGS or available for under tripple MSRP on GB.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - LRRPF52 - 01-01-2014
The thing that really bothers me about the Tavor, aside from the atrocious trigger, is the gas port location. It has so much dwell time, so they must have significant carrier mass and recoil spring strength in the gun.
![[Image: 8369536139_21a49122c3_c.jpg]](http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8502/8369536139_21a49122c3_c.jpg)
It makes no sense to locate the gas port that close to the chamber with these barrel lengths, unless there is something to balance it out, but even still, that long barrel with such a short gas system length does not look well conceived. There are guys saying it has less recoil impulse than an AR15, while shooting Wolf through it, then other videos showing it recoiling very hard with brass-cased ammo, so I'll have to wring one out myself.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - 45r - 01-01-2014
The sights are so tall a lot of people won't buy it.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - hm2 clark - 01-01-2014
In the picture it looks like there is a rail out front to allow for low scope mounting.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - Keep The Change - 01-02-2014
I didn't know that about the Tavor, LRRPF52. That is like a pistol length or less port.
What is it with bull pups having terrible triggers. I had an FN FS2000 and the trigger is awful. But the gun itself was awesome. I like the idea of the bull pup for urban scenarios. The FS2000 had a great feel to it with all the weight right up against you in tight. It would be a great home defense gun for ease of access and for getting around easier. It was a wide at the fore grip. I heard somebody say it was like holding a tuna. I did like the gun a lot and FNH makes awesome stuff. If only they would make a SCAR in 6.5 Grendel.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - explorecaves - 01-02-2014
Keep The Change Wrote:I didn't know that about the Tavor, LRRPF52. That is like a pistol length or less port.
What is it with bull pups having terrible triggers. I had an FN FS2000 and the trigger is awful. But the gun itself was awesome. I like the idea of the bull pup for urban scenarios. The FS2000 had a great feel to it with all the weight right up against you in tight. It would be a great home defense gun for ease of access and for getting around easier. It was a wide at the fore grip. I heard somebody say it was like holding a tuna. I did like the gun a lot and FNH makes awesome stuff. If only they would make a SCAR in 6.5 Grendel.
It is due to the fulcrum lever required to release the hammer. It will always be a heavy trigger thanks to that pesky thing called physics.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - Keep The Change - 01-02-2014
I never took apart the FS2000 trigger group but yeah I agree that the hammer is now a long way away from the trigger. I can understand heaviness but the creep was bad as well. I can understand that as well being you have longer train of mechanisms. But it seems like it could definitley be smoother.
However, a bull pup is designed for CQB and trigger action is not that critical like it is when making a 200-300 yd shot and you aren't expected to take many of those shots in CQB and even if it makes it way outside a structure.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - babue - 01-02-2014
Keep The Change Wrote:I never took apart the FS2000 trigger group but yeah I agree that the hammer is now a long way away from the trigger. I can understand heaviness but the creep was bad as well. I can understand that as well being you have longer train of mechanisms. But it seems like it could definitley be smoother.
However, a bull pup is designed for CQB and trigger action is not that critical like it is when making a 200-300 yd shot and you aren't expected to take many of those shots in CQB and even if it makes it way outside a structure.
I tried one of the Neu-Trigger things in my FS2000. It did smooth up the feel. The pull may be a little lighter, I did not measure it. I coated the Neu-Trigger part and the factory hammer with Sentry Solutions dry lube, also. Over all for the few $ it costs there
was a noticeable improvement in the trigger action. As was said, this is really a CQB rifle and you need to just pull through the trigger not get fancy trying to stage it. In some load testing I shot several .75" groups with some 75gr match bullet loads, so the rifle will get the job done close or far, if you give it a chance.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - LRRPF52 - 01-02-2014
There are at least 2 bullpups that have superb triggers, but they are bolt guns. One is the German DSR-1, and the other is the DTA SRS.
Cracking the code on a decent trigger in a self-loading bullpup is a different story, since self-loading rifles typically have hammers instead of strikers.
The issue is that the amount of compression it takes to cock a striker fights the unlocking cam in a rotating bolt weapon, so I'm unaware of a production striker-fired, gas-operated military rifle. I can't say I've ever seen one at all, and have been looking to see if any developmental work has been done on such a thing. Maybe some of the original turn-bolt actions that were converted to self-loaders would have one.
I've always been a big fan of the bullpup concept, but I don't think all the challenges with a bullpup have been properly solved. Ejection is one that when you go with the Russian tubular forward eject like the FN2000, you complicate the extraction mechanism to a point that is simply unsatisfactory for a military weapon, even though the Belgians have fielded it. Here is the weapon they took their design from:
![[Image: tkb022_1.jpg]](http://community.ashworthcollege.edu/servlet/JiveServlet/showImage/2-192477-30353/tkb022_1.jpg)
Then look at controls. Mag release, bolt hold open and release, and selector become problematic. I had a design I worked on years ago that addressed all of these and more, but the ejection system would really have to be R&D'd bigtime, as it is most likely prone to self-induced, post-ejection port clearance stove pipes.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - 45r - 01-02-2014
The short gas system will help with the 9mm kit and the 300BLK.
It uses a long stroke design and their is enough mass to be reliable.
The Tavor seems to be the best design so far and they are making a lot so prices are getting better.
I would like to try a bullpup but will probably wait for one in 6.5Grendel.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - LRRPF52 - 01-02-2014
There are very few carbines that use a gas system in 9mm, as it's usually a blowback system.
These current Tavors are set up for 5.56 NATO, with crazy dwell time.
Bullpup Lovers, a Sneak Peak at Something New - BluntForceTrauma - 01-02-2014
Bullpups are the way to go, but, in my opinion, they will be viable when reliable tubular, helical-feed mags for assault rifle cartridges are available, that feed from the buttstock or such, and then ejection should be out the bottom. Isn't there a Russian Bizon SMG, as an example, even though it feeds from the foregrip?
I only say that because I'm guessing that box magazines in a bullpup make the prone clumsy, but I'm not sure.
John