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No holds barred lightweight build - BigBluePup - 08-10-2012
Hey everyone.
So this is my first 6.5 build and you guys seem to be the best online resource for the Grendel so here we go...
The point of this build is pretty much summed up in the title, I want the lightest 6.5 humanly possible.
The reason you ask, I have some long range guns (custom Remington 700 Sendero .300RUM) and they are heavy pigs. Which is fine for hunting in the desert (we go to Wyoming every year for mule deer) and you're not climbing over stumps and brush and fences all the time like you do up here in the Pac NW.
So the goal is to make a feather weight mid range gun and the 6.5 fits the bill pretty well.
Being a non AR expert I want to get some opinions on where I can trim some weight.
so far this is what I have for parts. (non purchased yet)
Proof research 20" carbon fiber barrel and matching bolt,
Rainier arms forged upper without forward assist,
Sand hill titanium switch block,
Carbon fiber hand guard, (probably a lancer or whatever else might be lighter)
Bushmaster carbon 15 lower (I know I'm gunna catch flack for this but I think the new ones are a lot better then they used to be)
Sure fire suppressor and muzzle break,
Stock... I'm open to this, I have a good friend and hunting buddy of mine that is a metal fabricator (and probably the best tig welder on the west coast) and we've been playing with the idea of building a titanium or aluminum stock and seeing if we can save some weight and gain a little on the cool factor.
Optics will more then likely be Vortex or Night force,
I also want to do some iron sights on a 45* for quick target acquisition in the brush.
Anyone know where I can trim some weight?
I've heard of a company that makes a polymer internals kit to shave some weight anyone have more info on this?
This is all in spit wad status right now and once I get everything dialed I'll pull the trigger on the barrel and suppressor since they are the two big ticket items.
Thanks for the help in advance guys I'll take any criticism or help you guys have.
No holds barred lightweight build - stokesrj - 08-10-2012
Here is my light weight rig, I wouldn't want it any lighter. http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?3418-Lightweight-builds&p=37482&viewfull=1#post37482
Bob
No holds barred lightweight build - BigBluePup - 08-10-2012
Why wouldn't you want to go lighter?
I'm thinking I drop a little weight on ya from the barrel, Lower, upper (no forward assist), and maybe stock depending on what we come up with, but I will gain some on optics.
How happy have you been with performance so far?
Do you have any light weight internals on it? and what milling on the bolt was done?
Thanks for the .02!
No holds barred lightweight build - kamrr4437 - 08-10-2012
Your right the only thing i wouldnt recommend is the lower. I would stick with a regular aluminum lower. Theres really no weight there anyway.
No holds barred lightweight build - melensdad - 08-10-2012
![[Image: 1-18.jpg]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/melensdad/guns/1-18.jpg)
Of the nearly 100 ARs that I've been involved in building, this gun that I built for my daughter was by far the lightest. It uses a pencil thin barrel and a full polymer Cavalry Arms lower. The Cav Arms lower integrates the lower, handgrip and buttstock into one, very lightweight, monolithic unit that saves weight by eliminating many of the bolts and other parts needed to hold separate comonents together. Its also very strong and takes abuse (think Glock). While this gun is built in 5.56, it could easily be done in 6.5 Grendel (and obviously it would not be required to be pink!). You could shave another 1 or 2 ounces by utilizing a different gas block that doesn't include a front sight.
No holds barred lightweight build - leopard6.5 - 08-10-2012
BigBluePup: I think Bob has you on the weight of his barrel. That 16" ( actually 14.5" plus an integral flashhider) Satern Spartan double fluted barrel weighs in at 1.1lbs..
The lightest weight Proof Research lists for any of their barrels is 1.5lbs.
I also have a Grendel rifle using the 16" Satern Spartan barrel( I also have one of their 18" Satern Spartan barrels on another rifle).
My total rifle came in at just under 5lbs.
I can't speak for Bob but personally I wouldn't want to go lighter than the 5lbs. because I start feeling an increase in recoil from a lack of weight to offset it.
I personally love that rifle with the 16" Satern Spartan barrel because it is so handy and everything I shoot with it just dies.
Welcome to the Horde and good luck with your build.
Lee
PS- I used an ACE ARFX buttstock and a Hogue overmolded handguard on that rifle. The ACE buttstock is very light and the Hogue handguard has the rubber overmolding which helps insulate my hands from the cold when I'm using it up north.
No holds barred lightweight build - LRRPF52 - 08-10-2012
I was also going to recommend the Corbon15 (now Bushmaster-owned) lower. They are pretty tough, and lighter than aluminum. You could also use the new FAB Defense stock with an internal recoil spring assembly to help mitigate that if you're concerned about it.
[video=youtube;PvcznfgvW3U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvcznfgvW3U[/video]
No holds barred lightweight build - BigBluePup - 08-10-2012
leopard6.5 Wrote:BigBluePup: I think Bob has you on the weight of his barrel. That 16" ( actually 14.5" plus an integral flashhider) Satern Spartan double fluted barrel weighs in at 1.1lbs..
The lightest weight Proof Research lists for any of their barrels is 1.5lbs.
I also have a Grendel rifle using the 16" Satern Spartan barrel( I also have one of their 18" Satern Spartan barrels on another rifle).
My total rifle came in at just under 5lbs.
I can't speak for Bob but personally I wouldn't want to go lighter than the 5lbs. because I start feeling an increase in recoil from a lack of weight to offset it.
I personally love that rifle with the 16" Satern Spartan barrel because it is so handy and everything I shoot with it just dies.
Welcome to the Horde and good luck with your build.
Lee
PS- I used an ACE ARFX buttstock and a Hogue overmolded handguard on that rifle. The ACE buttstock is very light and the Hogue handguard has the rubber overmolding which helps insulate my hands from the cold when I'm using it up north.
Wow that is a pretty light weight barrel,
What is their (if they make one) weight in a 20" ?
From what proof is telling me the barrel and bolt combo weighs in at 2.4lbs
I don't want to run anything shorter then a 20".
Does anyone have the weight of a stripped Corbon15 lower compared to a aluminum lower?
as far as being to light weight, I'm not really worried about it. With it suppressed and integrated muzzle break the recoil won't be to bad.
I shoot a .50 desert eagle, .454 casull, and a .300RUM I like recoil
lol
No holds barred lightweight build - BigBluePup - 08-10-2012
I've looked into some of the Cav arms stuff but they are out of business now though from what I understand so finding their stuff might be tough.
I also like the idea of having an adjustable stock as well.
@loepard, I'll look into the ARFX stock and see what it has to offer...
Thanks guys on the ideas! Loving the info!
No holds barred lightweight build - melensdad - 08-10-2012
Cav Arms is out of business but they sold their molds and the lowers are still be produced.
No holds barred lightweight build - Haraise - 08-10-2012
Why do you want a lightweight 20"?
Going lightweight with that length of barrel is going to be front heavy, just a matter of leverage.
The velocity loss isn't bad at all going to 18, 16 or 14.5.
No holds barred lightweight build - ricsmall - 08-10-2012
Ive heard some guys on another forum talk about plum crazy lowers, but it is a fixed A2 length stock.
No holds barred lightweight build - BigBluePup - 08-10-2012
Haraise Wrote:Why do you want a lightweight 20"?
Going lightweight with that length of barrel is going to be front heavy, just a matter of leverage.
The velocity loss isn't bad at all going to 18, 16 or 14.5.
I'm no expert but I plan on running it suppressed and from what I've been told the longer barrels are more forgiving when it comes to round development for sub sonic ammo.
That and I wanna keep all the steam I can to keep speeds up. even 100fps make a big difference when you start getting out to that 700yrd + range.
No holds barred lightweight build - BigBluePup - 08-11-2012
Ya I'm not a big fan of fixed length stocks on AR's
No holds barred lightweight build - stokesrj - 08-11-2012
The Bolt carrier is heavily milled but that's about it.
The reason I wouldn't go lighter is that I have several ultralight rifles, titanium actions from before they were available in factory form, carbon fiber barrels, skeletonized, everything, I just wouldn't do all that anymore, it isn't worth it. The weight of this one is just right. It performs beautifully, 300 yard shots on very small targets are a piece of cake, not even a challenge. And the handling and balance are superb. Going lighter can rob the handling.
The only negative is with the integral flash hider, the bottom is not solid. So, dust signatures, and dust in the eyes if shooting prone is a real possibility if you are not careful.
I could easily save more weight with my choice of scope and rings, but these are the ones I like. No irons for me, although I compete exclusively with irons, I want optics for hunting from touching fur to way out there, optics are faster.
But in the end, it isn't what I like that counts it's what you like. I was just sharing what information I have.
Bob
No holds barred lightweight build - BigBluePup - 08-11-2012
You're definitely right about gas ports on a brake pointed 6 o'clock, I'd NEVER use a Holland style or venturi style break. The surefire brakes have ports out the side and small ports on the top and when the suppressor is on there is almost no gas signature.
Handling is also pretty important, even though it's not going to be some door busting down room clearing tactical gun I still want it to swing well.
I'm thinking with the glass I'll have on it, it should bring some balance back to it.
Thanks so much for the info. I always love picking guys brains that have more experience with this kind of stuff.
Anything else you guys can come up with would be awesome. I'll be sure to post some pics as things come along.
No holds barred lightweight build - Haraise - 08-11-2012
BigBluePup Wrote:I'm no expert but I plan on running it suppressed and from what I've been told the longer barrels are more forgiving when it comes to round development for sub sonic ammo.
That and I wanna keep all the steam I can to keep speeds up. even 100fps make a big difference when you start getting out to that 700yrd + range.
You should be really careful about this. You're setting up to have something like a 50" long gun that's going to handle like holding a sledgehammer straight out from the stock.
How are you planning to get over brush and fences with that long of a gun? Pole vault with it?
Just joking about the pole vaulting, but the rest is pretty serious. What're you planning on hitting at 700 yards plus?
No holds barred lightweight build - LRRPF52 - 08-11-2012
If you want a good handling rifle with a 20" barrel suppressed, you ain't gonna have it unless you are 6'10" or taller. 20" guns with cans suck to swing, unless using a reflex can that covers the entire exposed portion of barrel, with a few baffles in front of the muzzle, and there aren't a lot of people making those in the US, if any.
Heck, a 14.5" M4A1 with the Knight's QD Suppressor sucks in the handling, unless you have a rifle-length handguard, and even then, it's a front-heavy blaster.
Hardly anyone shoots subs through suppressors, so I would really look at what you want to do most importantly, and make your build decisions from there:
Lightweight Hunting Stick Priority-go with an 18" barrel, lightweight contour or fluted, threaded muzzle. You'll be within 40fps of the 20" gun mv usually, maybe even the same. You can suppress the 18" well, and it won't be too bad, but will still be front-heavy. This is what was done with the SPR in SOCOM, although it isn't used much anymore with the SOPMOD Block II M4A1 upgrades.
Shooting distance-22"-24" RLGS, heavy bull profile under handguard, .875-.936 gas block, heavy forend, fluted if you prefer it.
Shooting subsonic-read this thread: http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?2271-Anyone-come-up-with-a-action-Cycling-Subsonic-Load-yet
Lightweight hunter and 700yd precision gun are usually a mutually-exclusive thing, although the Grendel/AR15 would be the cartridge that would come closest to barely being capable of sucking equally at both of those tasks less than other rifle/caliber combos.
Something's got to give in your requirements as far as performance and weight are concerned. Physics pretty much demands it.
No holds barred lightweight build - JASmith - 08-11-2012
That outfit has nice lines. It should also be as accurate as the more conventional build.
Yes, I am indeed thinking of other colors -- but possibly not black -- maybe a shade of grey. (I know, black and grey aren't officially colors!)
Who did they sell them to?
No holds barred lightweight build - BjornF16 - 08-11-2012
BigBluePup Wrote:You're definitely right about gas ports on a brake pointed 6 o'clock, I'd NEVER use a Holland style or venturi style break.
I have a Holland brake on my 7mm Rem Mag...there is no port at 6 o'clock; ports at 9,12,3 o'clock only.