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+--- Thread: Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies (/showthread.php?tid=24303)
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Dt219 - 02-23-2022
I am noticing some weird stuff with my brass thats been fired in my lilja barrel. The headspace measures ok from what I can tell but the brass is not had but 3 firings on them and not hot loads. I size them with a forster full length die. The 2 pieces on the left is from the lilja and the 2 on the right is starline brass fired from a PF criterion barrel that looks normal to me that I size with hornady dies The pronounced ring is .275 up from the base of the case head, and measures .445-.447 most every piece is looking like this fired from my lilja . What is wrong ? Is my chamber too fat towards the rear ? Is the brass junk ? This brass pictured is fired brass thats not been sized !!! Please point me in a good direction feel free to ask questions I will do my best to get an answer
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Happy2Shoot - 02-24-2022
They are fine. That line is where the die is trying to squeeze / size the case where the head is too thick to get squeezed. Confirm with a paperclip, or cut a case in half if you can do it cleanly.
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Dt219 - 02-24-2022
Those are fired cases that have not been resized ? Still think they are fine ?
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Happy2Shoot - 02-24-2022
I may not understand. Have those cases been fired 3 times? Did they have that line after resizing, or after you fired it?
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Dt219 - 02-24-2022
After firing before sizing.
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Happy2Shoot - 02-24-2022
Hmmm. Not good. Do you know the paperclip technique?
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Dt219 - 02-24-2022
I do, I have not felt a catch on the inside of them
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Klem - 02-24-2022
DT,
First thoughts are that the chamber has been reamed too wide.
It looks like the case is expanding/fireforming to the chamber walls forward of where the case is thick, as it should. The web at the base is too thick to expand and supports itself, as it should. What the photos show is the shape of the chambers. The Lilja chamber is noticeably wider and likely too wide. Those cases won't last long before splitting.
We are looking at axial headspace here. While longitudinal headspace (from base to shoulder) might be fine, the difference between the ID of the chamber and OD of the case is also headspace. Too much and the case ruptures, either immediately or eventually. Your unfired cases and Forster die are more than likely perfectly fine because the coincidence of both being out is unlikely, plus they work in the other gun. This is pointing to the Lilja chamber being too wide.
I would send them the photos and ask their advice. Their customer service is excellent.
SAAMI case dimensions are found here;
[ATTACH=CONFIG]18674[/ATTACH]
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Kosh65 - 02-24-2022
I agree with klem. And if not corrected, most likely lead to case head separation.
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - lazyengineer - 02-24-2022
What Klem said. Unlike .223, it would appear that is some settings, when a multiple times reloaded Grendel case decides to case head separate, it decides to kaboom at times. That doesn't look right.
I personally run basic Hornady, Federal, and mixed 7.62x39 resized, in basic Hornady dies. In BBLs from PSA and Alexander, and don't have these issues. But I haven't run amy of my brass at the high rate of reloading either. I'm only up to maybe 5x so far.
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Dt219 - 02-24-2022
I will try and get in contact with them. For me they have been very hard to deal with over this barrel
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Klem - 02-24-2022
DT,
SAAMI blueprints recommend .4426" ID for chamber diameter at the web join. Grendel ammo should be .4410" OD at the web join. So the designers consider .0016" of expansion to be safe and reasonable. Your expansion in the Lilja is two to three times SAAMI ammunition.
I don't know what other discussions you've had with Lilja but this one is pretty straight forward.
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Dt219 - 02-24-2022
I have always thought the chamber was too fat. I can see technically how it could have happened but its hard to grasp why. They are one of the leading barrel makers. Was the reamer out of spec or could it have been jacked up in the lathe. The gun shoots light bullets fine but I have never had any luck getting 120-123 class bullets to group with any powder. Im sure the chamber is partly to blame
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Klem - 02-24-2022
Dt,
Who knows - there are a few possibilities. I wouldn't complicate things by including any accuracy data in your approach. It is out of spec and that alone justifies a make-good.
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - tdbru - 02-24-2022
DT,
Klem nailed it.
-tdbru
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Dt219 - 02-24-2022
Ok. Is there any thing a gunsmith would have to measure the chamber ?
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - tdbru - 02-24-2022
cerrosafe. get it at brownells. you can download and read the directions first to see if it's something you want to do on your own.
-tdbru
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - tdbru - 02-24-2022
https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-tools/barrel-chamfering-accessories/cerrosafe-chamber-casting-alloy-prod384.aspx
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Klem - 02-24-2022
Dt219 Wrote:Ok. Is there any thing a gunsmith would have to measure the chamber ?
Gunsmiths use Go/NO Go gauges however these do not account for the diameter of the chamber. Your longitudinal headspace will be accounted for by the gunsmith, but unless they shoot a few rounds or take a cast of the chamber this can happen.
The gunsmith can measure the diameter of the reamer but if the reamer or barrel is even a fraction loose, like a power drill, it will shave more than its diameter. New reamers tend to ream more than used reamers but we only know it's wide, not how.
Talk to them. My experience is that Dan Lilja's customer service is top shelf.
Whats wrong ? Chamber, brass, dies - Old Bob - 02-24-2022
American Gunsmith video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AbOhlZVwAU
I had a Remington Rolling Block rifle that was supposed to be chambered in 32-40 Winchester. I couldn't chamber factory ammo in it. There was about a half inch of the case head still sticking out of the chamber. A gunsmith made a cerrosafe casting for me. Found out the barrel caliber was .308" not .321" & the case neck O.D. was the same as .308 Win. The case taper was also different. So, basically, what I had was a 30-40 wildcat cartridge designed to shoot 30 cal bullets. To shoot it, I'd need a special case die to size down my 32-40 brass. A friend had a brand new 40-70 Sharps straight wall barrel. I bought that & put it on my Rolling Block. He also had the dies & all the other gear I'd need to shoot my rifle so, in a day's time, I had a rifle I could shoot with readily available materials.