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+--- Thread: Dead on Arrival (/showthread.php?tid=21607)
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Dead on Arrival - Houndrunner - 07-11-2020
Got my Budget Grendel completed today only to have it fail on the first shot. Im a newb when it comes to AR platforms. I went cheap and got a complete upper from BCA. Bad mistake. First round fired and jammed with the casing halfway out. 2nd round double fed and third round extracted partly with the bolt slamming shut on the casing hanging Maybe a bad bolt or extractor broke. Im clueless.
Dead on Arrival - Rosecrans1 - 07-11-2020
Can you show us a close pic of the bolt face?
Dead on Arrival - Houndrunner - 07-11-2020
First 2 pics are the bolt after the 3rd shot. 3rd is the bore, and the last 3 are in order of shots. The 2nd was the only one with a magazine in.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]16430[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16431[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16432[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16433[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16434[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]16435[/ATTACH]
Dead on Arrival - tdbru - 07-11-2020
Houndrunner,
please don't take insult but i'm going to start with some dumb questions. To me it looks like the mag was not fully seated. if you hit the mag release, will the mag drop free of the rifle under it's own weight? that's the first dumb question. The Bolt looks ok from the photos. the extractor seems to be fully intact. and the corners of the extractor seem to be properly radiused. Were you running Grendel magazines or 5.56x45/223 Rem magazines? Also what ammo were you running? reloads? factory? what are you running for buffer/buffer spring? do you know (i.e. rifle buffer with rifle spring. Carbine H3 buffer, etc.)
i bought a complete BCA upper too, because it was the only one at the time i could find with a 24" tube, which i wanted. i've had zero trouble with it functionally.
picture 5 looks like either the magazine follower pushed the round up and out of the magazine before the bolt started forward, or, the rifle is getting way not enough gas to drive the BCG back enough to get the case out of the chamber fully and the BCG starts forward before the case gets out of the receiver.
load one round from a fully seated magazine. fire it and make sure the bolt locks back. make sure the magazine is fully seated. make sure it's a Grendel magazine.
if loading just one round from the magazine locks the bolt back, then try 2 rounds.
let us know please. kind of hard to diagnose over the internet. I'm sure others will try to help too.
-tdbru
Dead on Arrival - Houndrunner - 07-11-2020
Appreciate the help. Yes it is a ASC Grendel mag and it was seated all the way in. First shot was Hornady Black, last 2 was Federal 130 grain. At the end i loaded one round in the bore then tried to extract it manually with the bolt and it would not pull the casing out. Not sure if that tells anything. Its just a factory PSA complete lower with standard carbine buffer.
Also as far as testing with 1 round then 2. It jammed on the very first shot and i had to manually remove the casing. Same with the last 2 rounds.
Dead on Arrival - tdbru - 07-11-2020
well, you mentioned not having the magazine inserted for some of the testing. do you recall with the first shot, was the magazine in or not? i'm trying to figure out from your descriptions if the bcg went back far enough that with an empty magazine fully inserted, the bolt would lock back. that would tell me you were getting enough gas into the bcg to functionally operate it.
i assumed you cleaned the barrel before you shot it? do you have a chamber brush? or a copper bore brush from, say a 410 or something that would substitute as a chamber brush? was the chamber free of debris?
not being able to extract a loaded round (how did you get it out by the way, shoot it out?) implies to me that if the bolt fully locked, then the throat may have not been cut properly? i find that hard to believe though. sounds like you had a bullet jammed into the rifling. sometimes happens on handloads if seated out too far, but i've rarely heard of that with factory ammo and SAAMI commercial sporting chambers.
hmmm...... let me think a bit.
-tdbru
Dead on Arrival - tdbru - 07-11-2020
oh, by the way, what barrel length? if the barrel is short, does it have a mid-length gas tube and gas block or a rifle length tube and gas block?
Dead on Arrival - Lemonaid - 07-11-2020
If the case rim wont pop under the extractor malfunctions like yours may happen. Check the forum for extractor threads that show pics of what the shape of the extractor should look like and compare them to yours.
Dead on Arrival - tdbru - 07-11-2020
Lemonaid may be on to something. do you have the finger strength to push a round down hard enough while holding the bolt in your other hand to compress the ejector pin and get the cartridge case head up against the bolt face and see if the extractor snaps down over the rim? i'm not sure i could, but i've seen it done.
-tdbru.
Dead on Arrival - FRB6.5 - 07-11-2020
May also check if your extractor spring has the o-ring on it, removing it may help.
Dead on Arrival - Houndrunner - 07-11-2020
First shot and 3rd shot was no mag. Only the 2nd has a mag and it tried to double feed. The first shot the case didnt come out. It was tipped up towards the top of the rifle and had the bolt wedged open. I took a screwdriver to push the casing down and it fell out. Ill try to shoot it again with just 1 in the mag to see if it locks back. Also its an 18 barrel. I took the handguard off and the gas tube is aligned and seems to be working properly testing the flow back to the bolt.
I also did clean the bore and barrel before shooting. Just looking closely at the extractor it just has some markings on it that worrys me with only 3 rounds fired.
Dead on Arrival - Hickory Nut - 07-11-2020
Does it have an adjustable gas block if so it may need to be adjusted? Make sure it has the correct bolt. My 6.5 creedmore came with the wrong BCG from PSA and it would do the same thing (fail to feed/fail to eject/double feed). I know you said it is a PSA lower mated with BCA Complete upper but its is worth looking at.
Dead on Arrival - Rosecrans1 - 07-11-2020
Hi Houndrunner,
The bolt/extractor does look good.
Check on what Lemonaid and tbdru state to look for.
Also, did you clean the BCA upper completely before firing?
These ship new with a heavy oil, (and numerous pieces of steel shavings from BCA in particular).
This oil is for rust prevention and or left over from manufacturing. It sucks as a lubricant and it can really mess with cartridges in the chamber.
Are there any weird imprints on the fired cartridges aside from the jam damage?
Good Luck!
Dead on Arrival - Houndrunner - 07-11-2020
Quick question. If I load one round in the bore. When I pull the bolt back should it eject the round? Because its not. I have to manually raise the gun and get the round out myself.
Dead on Arrival - KZero - 07-11-2020
Yes, if the bolt went fully home (allowing the extractor to snap over the rim,) then it should pull the round out with it when you pull it back.
Dead on Arrival - Houndrunner - 07-11-2020
Well thats the problem then. Cause this bolt will not pull out the round.
Dead on Arrival - BCG - 07-11-2020
Did you clean and oil before firing? I have this happen and all I have to do was clean and oil.
Dead on Arrival - Popeye212 - 07-11-2020
Wonder if the gas block is lined up??
Dead on Arrival - Houndrunner - 07-11-2020
Yeah I cleaned the bore well. Yes the block is lined up as well. Just a bad extractor Im assuming.
Dead on Arrival - VASCAR2 - 07-11-2020
You could have a short chamber. With the bolt carrier removed you should be able to drop a factory cartridge into the chamber. If you raise the muzzle the cartridge should fall out of the chamber from gravity. If you need a cleaning rod to push the cartridge out of the chamber that could be part of the problem. If you have to push the cartridge out with a cleaning rod color the bullet with a black marker and drop it into the barrel. You should be able to see rub marks on the bullet if the bullet is into the lands. If the cartridge only needs a light touch with a cleaning rod or a bump for the cartridge to fall out the chamber might be ok. Coloring the bullet will give you an idea if the bullets are hitting the lands in the barrel.
There are forum members who have gotten good barrels from BCA but there have been forum members who had issues with bad BCA 6.5 Grendel barrels. With a Nitride chamber you cant easily fix it with a chamber reamer. Sometimes you can salvage a stainless steel or chrome moly barrel with a finish reamer. Nitride treated barrels will destroy a finish reamer and rental services say not to use finish reamers on Nitride, Melonite or QPQ treated barrels.
If the barrel is the problem contact BCA, ammo is to expensive to waste on a bad barrel.
Another possibility is the bolt has the wrong extractor. Another forum member got a BCA bcg and the 6.5 Grendel bolt had a 5.56/223 extractor. The 6.5 Grendel uses a specific extractor for the 6.5 Grendel case head and rim. It is easy to push out the extractor retaining pin. Make sure the extractor fits the profile of the 6.5 Grendel case.