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Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - Jakeismydog2 - 12-31-2019
Hello all. I am new here. A few weeks ago I didn't even know the 6.5 Grendel existed. I am not even sure how I stumbled across it, but I did, and I now have a HOWA mini action showing up in about a week. I thought this would be a fun project to build a very light deer rifle for myself and my kids to use in a few years when they get big enough. The Grendel seemed perfect for a low recoil deer gun for my kids.
I feel like I have read a lot of conflicting info on barrel length. So here is the research I put together. I pulled data from VASCAR2's post about barrel lengths and speed. I know there are plenty of conflicting theories about how to determine lethality on deer. I know all those theories have flaws but at some point, you just have to choose one and use it to compare the data. Which is what I did, using the Chuckhawks.com Killing Power Score (Energy x Sectional Density x Cross-sectional Area) according to their interpretation anything over a 15 is good for Deer, while 12 is "sufficient" for most deer. For ease of use with my kids, I would also consider a 6" Maximum point-blank range as a limiting factor as well. I don't want to be trying to worry about adjusting scopes or trying to explain hold points to them when there is a deer in their scope.
Here is my data (123gr SST):
24"
MPBR - 257 yards
KPS 15+ - 350yds
20"
MPBR - 251 yards
KPS 15+ - 325 yards
18"
MPBR - 250 Yards
KPS 15+ - 300 yards
16"
MPBR - 244 yards
KPS 15+ - 275 yards
So my take away is that while there is some velocity loss in shortening the barrels, the end result when hunting deer is negligible. 24" to 16" only loses you 1 yards of MPBR and your killing power still exceeds the MPBR yardage. So really it is a simple deer shooter to 250 yards whether it is wearing a 24" barrel or a 16" one.
Am I looking at this right? Do any of you disagree strongly?
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - CJW - 12-31-2019
Welcome to the vile, vile horde dog 2...
With the great projectiles we have today and the distances I shoot in Georgia, I would not hesitate to deer hunt even with a SBR.
98% of my shots are under 75 yards, thinking about most of my deer have been killed under 50 yards
I have a tendency to worry much more about my shooting technique from various poor hunting shooting positions than how fast the bullet is going.
This forum is the best shooting forum on the web, glad you joined.
Chuck
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - VASCAR2 - 12-31-2019
One thing to remember is the monolithic bullets tend to equal or exceed performance of cup and core bullets using a lighter weight projectile. A 85 grain to 100 grain monolithic bullet with higher velocity are very effective out of the 6.5 Grendel. The flight time and lighter recoil might be advantageous for younger inexperienced shooters. Some of the newer bullets expand at lower velocities which extends the range you might be willing to shoot game.
The Nosler 129 grain Accu Bond Long Range (ABLR) supposedly expand down to 1300 FPS. For experienced qualified hunters this gives a lot of flexibility. Another thing to consider is whether the new shooter will be shooting from a blind, tree stand or from random shooting positions. The shooting conditions might dictate a shorter lighter rifle or a situation where a 20 inch barrel might be optimum.
A member here who goes by Frontier Gear has a lot of experience and did a custom build on a Howa action he bought from Brownell’s. FG shortened the barrel and added a custom Boyd stock. His thread might give you some ideas.
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?18001-My-quot-Everything-quot-Rifle
I think a barreled action from Brownell’s would be a good place to start a build unless your wanting to buy an off the rack rifle. If I remember correctly Howa sells a youth length stock for their Howa 6.5 Grendel. Whitaker’s guns had the youth models on sale a few months ago for very good prices.
Here is a link to a Howa 6.5 Grendel with youth stock like what was on sale but currently out of stock.
https://www.whittakerguns.com/product/38253
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - weagle - 01-01-2020
![[Image: 5ndlzXL.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/5ndlzXL.jpg)
I'm 6'2" 230lb and I'm hunting with a 16" Howa Mini in a cut down youth stock. It's 6lb 10oz loaded.
Link to the build:
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?20917-Howa-Micro-Mini-project
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - LRRPF52 - 01-01-2020
Welcome aboard. We did this exercise in the 6.5 Grendel Handbooks, showing the same types of information for barrel length and terminal expectations based on several different bullets.
There are several graphs in Volumes I and II that cover this subject and come to the same basic conclusions: that barrel length is not as important as one would expect when shooting at common hunting distances. Who knows how many people now have proven that in the field, with everything from 10.5" to 28" Grendels.
Even if you don't reload and never plan to, there are 16 different chapters between the 2 volumes that are relevant to most 6.5 Grendel owners/shooters.
![[Image: 65grendelhandbookvol1_2.png]](https://bnbwebsites.s3.amazonaws.com/5098/65grendelhandbookvol1_2.png)
![[Image: Vol-2-Excerpt-300x326.jpg]](http://shootersnotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Vol-2-Excerpt-300x326.jpg)
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - tdbru - 01-01-2020
hello jakeismydog2,
i happened to pick up an 22" standard barreled howa mini bolt gun. personally i like longer barrels for 2 reasons. most velocity out of any given load vs a shorter tube, even if the difference isn't great. second reason is reduced muzzle blast/noise. i've had enough hearing damage from firearms over my life. even though short barreled rifles are quite popular and quite handy, they have a lot higher dB level than a longer barreled rifle. big difference in noise between 16" vs 22 or 24". though noise does not equal recoil, excessively loud firearms may be more difficult for the kids to learn to shoot simply due to the noise. the Grendel is low enough recoil and the ammo is modest enough price wise (especially if you reload) that the kids can practice a lot, without breaking the bank. they'll discover the fun of shooting. like i did when i was a kid back when we were dodging T-Rexs. statistically, all else being equal (which rarely happens) a shorter barrel for the same diameter will be stiffer and "should" therefore be capable of slightly better groups. however i've found enough variation just in the barrels themselves that i think it would take a benchrest capable setup to see the accuracy difference just due to barrel stiffness differences between short and long barrels. and a whole lot better shot than i am to drive the rig. so don't worry a lot on barrel length. i have been pleasantly surprised on the HOWA design/construction. this mini being my first HOWA, i think it's quite thoughtfully designed with good (to me) features in the barreled action at the price point it carries. of course there are some price point compromises too, which i find are mostly in the stock and bottom "metal" which is plastic actually. yet in my mind it's a good value.
i think you'll have a ball with the 6.5 Grendel cartridge. it's (like many 6.5mm calibers) quite an on game performer despite it's diminutive size. but it does have limits like everything. you'll do well if you can get out and practice a lot so that you can shoot it well, and then respect the range at which you shoot game at. you'll need to make sure the range is close enough that at the impact speed expected of the bullet you use, you'll get some bullet expansion. this varies between different makes and types of bullets, so research that while you find a game bullet and / or load that shoots well out of your particular rifle.
one of the biggest factors in successfully taking game animals, in my opinion, is bullet placement. with good bullet placement, and with adequate impact velocities to go with it, deer can be successfully taken with a huge variety of calibers, 6.5 Grendel easily among the list. hit them in the hoof and even a 460 Weatherby won't bring game to bag. you get the idea.
i predict your on the verge of a lot of fun. enjoy.
-tdbru
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - Jakeismydog2 - 01-01-2020
LRRPF52 Wrote:Welcome aboard. We did this exercise in the 6.5 Grendel Handbooks, showing the same types of information for barrel length and terminal expectations based on several different bullets.
There are several graphs in Volumes I and II that cover this subject and come to the same basic conclusions: that barrel length is not as important as one would expect when shooting at common hunting distances. Who knows how many people now have proven that in the field, with everything from 10.5" to 28" Grendels.
Even if you don't reload and never plan to, there are 16 different chapters between the 2 volumes that are relevant to most 6.5 Grendel owners/shooters.
Where do I get these books?
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - Jakeismydog2 - 01-01-2020
Lots of good thoughts on here. I sure appreciate your help.
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - tdbru - 01-01-2020
alexander arms sells them. (the books that is)
-tdbru
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - tdbru - 01-01-2020
here:
http://www.shopalexanderarms.com/6_5_Grendel-Brass_Reloading.html
-tdbru
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - Jakeismydog2 - 01-01-2020
Thanks
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - VASCAR2 - 01-01-2020
You can get the handbooks directly from the source.
https://www.ar15buildbox.com/
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - bwills80 - 01-07-2020
I don't think the Grendel will be any less effective at 2-300 yards with any of those mentioned barrels. I have a Ruger Predator with a 22" and an AR with an 18". Both are a bit heavy for my wife to shoot so I am currently in the market for a 16" barrel upper. I have no doubts that it will be just as deadly.
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - Jakeismydog2 - 01-08-2020
So my HOWA showed up at my FFL yesterday so I went to go get it. When I got there my FFL told me he had never seen a more poorly packaged gun in ask his life.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]15258[/ATTACH]
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - HokeyPokeyKid - 01-08-2020
Jakeismydog2 Wrote:So my HOWA showed up at my FFL yesterday so I went to go get it. When I got there my FFL told me he had never seen a more poorly packaged gun in ask his life.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]15258[/ATTACH]
That doesn't even look like the same box my three Howa Mini's came in. All 3 of mine came wrapped in plastic with the bolt in a separate sleeve, in a box that fit pretty well.
That looks like crap, I would send it back because it looks used.
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - A5BLASTER - 01-08-2020
HokeyPokeyKid Wrote:That doesn't even look like the same box my three Howa Mini's came in. All 3 of mine came wrapped in plastic with the bolt in a separate sleeve, in a box that fit pretty well.
That looks like crap, I would send it back because it looks used.
Agreed. That looks like a used are returned rifle. Even the stock looks strange too me. Doest look like the stocks I have seen on howa minis.
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - Jakeismydog2 - 01-08-2020
Here are a couple of closer up pictures:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]15261[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]15262[/ATTACH]
I was pretty confident it was the floor model. It has the price tag still on it. When I contacted the seller he first said that it was probably my FFL that did that to try and make his company look bad because they sell guns so cheap. He said they don't even open there boxes up from the factory when they send them off. I then pointed out the price tag, he checked with his employees and found out it was the floor model. He apologized and said he would take it back if I wanted to.
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - weagle - 01-09-2020
Jakeismydog2 Wrote:Here are a couple of closer up pictures:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]15261[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]15262[/ATTACH]
I was pretty confident it was the floor model. It has the price tag still on it. When I contacted the seller he first said that it was probably my FFL that did that to try and make his company look bad because they sell guns so cheap. He said they don't even open there boxes up from the factory when they send them off. I then pointed out the price tag, he checked with his employees and found out it was the floor model. He apologized and said he would take it back if I wanted to.
Unless there is something wrong with the rifle, I wouldn't go through the hassle of sending it back. The box is missing the styrofoam insert and they shouldn't have shipped it like that, but it looks like it survived unscathed. Check the crown and the plastic mag and trigger guard.
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - weagle - 01-09-2020
Unless there is something wrong with the rifle, I wouldn't go through the hassle of sending it back. The box is missing the styrofoam insert and they shouldn't have shipped it like that, but it looks like it survived unscathed. Check the crown and the plastic mag and trigger guard.
Howa Barrel Length for Deer hunting - Jakeismydog2 - 01-09-2020
I don't think I am going to send it back. It sure doesn't look like anything was damaged. I took it apart tonight and weighed mine. I'm posting those weights as I spent much time searching the interwebs for correct weights when looking to order mine:
Complete Gun - 6 lbs 2oz
Barrelled Action - 3 lbs 8oz
Stock (no recoil pad) - 2lbs 2oz
Recoil Pad and screws - 4oz
Magazine and trigger guard assembly 4oz
Based on some rudimentary math I tried to determine barrel weight per inch. I found the balance point of the barreled action (18" from the end of the barrel) took the barrelled action weight divided by 2 = 28ozs then took 28/18 to get 1.55 oz per inch of barrel. So cutting the barrel down to a 16" would remove roughly 8ozs