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History of assault rifle :) - montana - 03-29-2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKVBeZkqDxU
History of assault rifle :) - bj139 - 03-29-2018
Great video. More young speakers like this are needed in pro-gun videos to convince the younger people guns are not the problem.
History of assault rifle :) - montana - 03-29-2018
bj139 Wrote:Great video. More young speakers like this are needed in pro-gun videos to convince the younger people guns are not the problem.
I think there could be hope for this nation. Not all millennials are idiots LOL.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vrkVwUEcAc&t=1s
History of assault rifle :) - sneaky one - 03-29-2018
Good find my man. Let's get her to speak at every NRA event, plus let's all chip in to get her on TV. !!! Maybe Roseanne could have her on her new show..
Let's Crank this forward
Montana and I just had an hour long chat on the phone about a few related issues. We do care about us all.
History of assault rifle :) - stanc - 05-27-2018
montana Wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKVBeZkqDxUGood speaker, but seems to be a little careless on her fact checking.
"Prior to 1989, the term 'assault weapon' did not exist... It is a political term, developed by anti-gun publicists..."
The first edition of The Gun Digest Book of Assault Weapons was published in 1986, by a pro-gun company.
History of assault rifle :) - montana - 05-27-2018
stanc Wrote:Good speaker, but seems to be a little careless on her fact checking.
"Prior to 1989, the term 'assault weapon' did not exist... It is a political term, developed by anti-gun publicists..."
The first edition of The Gun Digest Book of Assault Weapons was published in 1986, by a pro-gun company.
This is a description of this publication:
This is the latest word on true assault weaponry in use today by international military and law enforcement organisations. The authors report on the changing mission of these weapons and then test many of them during the preparation of exclusive performance reports. Students of the world's assault weaponry will find fresh information on trends and applications, as well as discussion and evaluation of the very latest firearms: Rifles, Submachine Guns, Crew-Served Machine Guns, Combat Shotguns - plus a very educated look into the 21st century.
The term "assault weapons" in this publication seems to be a loosely used name for a conglomerate of all full auto and military firearms. In any respectable historical reference of such firearms, there are terms for their proper nomenclature. Assault weapon is not one of them. Perhaps the anti's picked up on this, "click bate term", for the purpose of demonizing them instead of selling them to the growing survivalist movement of the time. In any case, that term was in use by the gun culture, even though it is not a proper term for their description. Assault weapon can imply a superior survivalist weapon for the ignorant, gullible gun buyer or the spawn of evil for the ignorant gullible leftist who has Hoplophobia. In any case you are correct about the use of this term Stan.
History of assault rifle :) - grayfox - 05-28-2018
I always thought the Stg 44 (SturmGewehr 44) was the first assault rifle and so-named, sturm means to storm or assault, rifle, "storm" as in, storm the battlements.
That was in '43 or '44. It was more than just a machinen pistole so not just a submachine gun, and specifically designed to carry by mechanized troops in a combat vehicle, kind of a replacement for the 98 carbine.
History of assault rifle :) - stanc - 05-28-2018
grayfox Wrote:I always thought the Stg 44 (SturmGewehr 44) was the first assault rifle and so-named, sturm means to storm or assault, rifle, "storm" as in, storm the battlements.Yes and no. Yes, the StG44 was the first rifle so named, but it was originally called a machine pistol, the MP44.
And there was a predecessor classified as machine carbine, the MKb42(H), made in very small numbers in 1942.
MKb42(H)
![[Image: Haenel_Mkb_42%28H%29.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Haenel_Mkb_42%28H%29.jpg)
StG44
![[Image: 0022B2-JPG633536158716464325.jpg]](http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/full/0022B2-JPG633536158716464325.jpg)
History of assault rifle :) - montana - 05-28-2018
The MKb42(H) fired from the open bolt which was disliked by the soldiers that first used it. The collector grade publishing did a revised and expanded edition,"Sturmgeweher From Firepower To Striking Power" which is probably the best reference on the subject and well worth the cost if a person is a history nut like myself. It even has a piece on Hugo Schmeisser"s post war contributions to the AK-47 which has irked many in the AK world LOL.
History of assault rifle :) - VASCAR2 - 05-29-2018
The reason the Germans called the (STG 44 Sturmgewehr) MP 44 was because Hitler was against semi auto rifles for the regular infantry. The Germans were trying not to draw attention to their new intermediate powered rifle so they chose the MP 44 designation. Once the soilders said get us more of the MP 44’s did Hitler learn of the rifle and coined the term Sturmgewehr 44 which translates to assault rifle 44. Hitler siezed on the propaganda value of the STG 44 and saw the benifit to his troops.
History of assault rifle :) - montana - 05-29-2018
VASCAR2 Wrote:The reason the Germans called the (STG 44 Sturmgewehr) MP 44 was because Hitler was against semi auto rifles for the regular infantry. The Germans were trying not to draw attention to their new intermediate powered rifle so they chose the MP 44 designation. Once the soilders said get us more of the MP 44’s did Hitler learn of the rifle and coined the term Sturmgewehr 44 which translates to assault rifle 44. Hitler siezed on the propaganda value of the STG 44 and saw the benifit to his troops.
Actually Hitler wanted something more align with the FG-42 using a full power rifle cartridge. Considering the tens of millions of rounds in inventory and the strain a new cartridge would create in the already stretched supply system was not unreasonable for Hitler's objections. It is a long story and can be confusing to follow. Hitler rejected the MKbH42 3 times but the members involved used trickery and bureaucratic confusion to hide what the higher command pleaded for,"more firer power for the individual soldier. Even Albert Speer got involved hiding it's development from Hitler. In the end Hitler was correct since the lack of ammunition was the STG's Achilles heel. I can highly recommend the book,""Sturmgeweher From Firepower To Striking Power" if a person is interested in the STG's development. Like the M-16, they had problems with the quality of the 7.92X33 ammo at the beginning of testing which was wrongly directed at the rifles design when a high number of malfunctions occurred. When first tested it was tested next to the K98 and MP40 for firepower and accuracy. The open bolt MKb42A inacuracy was not at first liked until the tactical advantage was recognized. When it was proven cook offs would not be a problem they switched to the improve MKb42A "closed bolt" which was the STG43.
History of assault rifle :) - stanc - 05-30-2018
I have to wonder about the "Sturmgewehr name as Hitler propaganda" story. It seems rather unlikely that American and British soldiers on the battlefield in 1944-45 would've even heard the term, let alone knew its meaning.
However, I'm not surprised that somebody coined a new name for this class of weapons. Like the contemporary M1 carbine, the MKb42 is not technically a carbine, nor is the MP43 a submachine gun, so "assault rifle" is perhaps as good of a name as any. (Although "assault rifle" is actually a bit of a misnomer, too, since use of such weapons is not limited to assaulting an objective.)
History of assault rifle :) - stanc - 05-30-2018
montana Wrote:The term "assault weapons" in this publication seems to be a loosely used name for a conglomerate of all full auto and military firearms. In any respectable historical reference of such firearms, there are terms for their proper nomenclature. Assault weapon is not one of them. Perhaps the anti's picked up on this, "click bate term", for the purpose of demonizing them instead of selling them to the growing survivalist movement of the time. In any case, that term was in use by the gun culture, even though it is not a proper term for their description. Assault weapon can imply a superior survivalist weapon for the ignorant, gullible gun buyer or the spawn of evil for the ignorant gullible leftist who has Hoplophobia. In any case you are correct about the use of this term Stan.Been thinking about your comments, and have come to this conclusion: It doesn't matter one iota what pro-gun folks think about the term "assault weapon."
The inescapable fact is that the term has been in common usage for more than three decades, and it will not go away just because pro-gun people ridicule it.
History of assault rifle :) - montana - 05-30-2018
stanc Wrote:Been thinking about your comments, and have come to this conclusion: It doesn't matter one iota what pro-gun folks think about the term "assault weapon."
The inescapable fact is that the term has been in common usage for more than three decades, and it will not go away just because pro-gun people ridicule it.
It isn't the name so much, as it's definition. Most firearms have a term,"name" that has a clear definition with a rational description for classification,"nomenclature" for different firearms. Rifle, bolt action, breach loader, muzzle loader,semi auto, carbine, sub machine gun, assault rifle, heavy-light -machine gun, pistol, semi auto pistol, revolver, semi auto revolver, etc. Every term has a logical reason for a separate name to describe a physical difference or function for classification. But what exactly is an assault weapon? Semi auto's with evil looking cosmetics?? Who defines which cosmetics looks evil? The M1A is OK but the AR-10 is evil?? Do only anti gun hoplophobe's get to decide which firearms are evil looking?? Even the term hoplophobe is not a universally accepted term, but the definition is clear. What exactly is an assault weapon? The term apparently doesn't cover all semi auto's or shot gun's by function or form, so what is the clear definition that makes an assault weapon?? It reminds me of racial slurs people today find un acceptable. Racial slurs are not only discouraged but the use of such terms can have profound consequences if used in public, since the use of such words were only used to demonize and insult without any specific truth other than to degrade, demonize and hurt certain classes of people in a society. This is no different with the term assault weapon being used in the firearm world of classification. It may have started out as click bate for the ignorant firearm consumers, but it has taken on a whole new persona for the same effects of historical propaganda. prop·a·gan·da
ˌpräpəˈɡandə/
noun
noun: propaganda; noun: Propaganda
1.
derogatory information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
If I'm wrong please enlighten me.
History of assault rifle :) - stanc - 05-30-2018
montana Wrote:It isn't the name so much, as it's definition. Most firearms have a term,"name" that has a clear definition with a rational description... But what exactly is an assault weapon? Semi auto's with evil looking cosmetics? Who defines which cosmetics looks evil? The M1A1 is OK but the AR-10 is evil?? Do only anti gun hoplophobe's get to decide which firearms are evil looking?? Even the term hoplophobe is not a universally accepted term, but the definition is clear. What exactly is an assault weapon? The term apparently doesn't cover all semi auto's or shot gun's by function or form, so what is the clear definition that makes an assault weapon??Apparently you still don't get it. There is no clear technical definition, because the term is meant to cover any and all firearms that the user wants included.
P.S. I presume that by M1A1 you actually meant M1A? These are the only small arms that I know of which have been given the M1A1 nomenclature...
![[Image: 1301A1-JPG633536159227001089.jpg]](http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/full/1301A1-JPG633536159227001089.jpg)
![[Image: 1389A-JPG633536159262463710.jpg]](http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/full/1389A-JPG633536159262463710.jpg)
History of assault rifle :) - montana - 05-30-2018
stanc Wrote:the term is meant to cover any and all firearms that the user wants included.
I get it, that was my point. I assume the use of the word "user" was a gentler synonym for, "ravenous anti second amendment hoplophobe"?
stanc Wrote:There is no clear technical definition,
Glad to see we agree!
stanc Wrote:P.S. I presume that by M1A1 you actually meant M1A?
Yup! Corrected, thank you.
History of assault rifle :) - stanc - 05-30-2018
montana Wrote:I get it, that was my point.Oh. Since you wrote a rather long paragraph repeatedly complaining about the absence of a clear definition, it appeared that you didn't understand why there is none.
montana Wrote:I assume the use of the word "user" was a gentler synonym for, "ravenous anti second amendment hoplophobe"?LOL. No. "User" was chosen because the Gun Digest books also use the term "assault weapon" to include any firearm that the editors wanted to cover in the publication.
IMO, 2A supporters are wasting their time harping on the lack of a technical definition. Since it is a useful term for anti-gun activists, they're not going to stop using it.
It may make Liberty Doll feel smug and self-righteous to ridicule those who talk about assault weapons, but it won't stop the efforts to get anti-gun legislation enacted.
History of assault rifle :) - montana - 05-30-2018
stanc Wrote:Oh. Since you wrote a rather long paragraph repeatedly complaining about the absence of a clear definition, it appeared that you didn't understand why there is none.
Yea, I can get long winded
stanc Wrote:LOL. No. "User" was chosen because the Gun Digest books also use the term "assault weapon" to include any firearm that the editors wanted to cover in the publication.
That was kinda my point, a term that is meaningless.
stanc Wrote:IMO, 2A supporters are wasting their time harping on the lack of a technical definition. Since it is a useful term for anti-gun activists, they're not going to stop using it.
This is where I disagree, exposing the lefts meaningless term for banning firearms exposes their meaningless accusations. Maybe not for the hopeless kool aid drinkers, but for the fence sitters and uninformed voters, "who can still use logic and reason" it can have a positive effect.
stanc Wrote:It may make Liberty Doll feel smug and self-righteous to ridicule those who talk about assault weapons, but it won't stop the efforts to get anti-gun legislation enacted.
Whats wrong with feeling smug and self-righteous?
It is the undecided voters she could have a positive effect on. The anti's will never stop, that I agree with.
History of assault rifle :) - stanc - 05-30-2018
montana Wrote:That was kinda my point, a term that is meaningless.:confused: I was addressing your remark that you assumed I opted to employ the word "user" as a gentler synonym for "ravenous anti second amendment hoplophobe".
I did not use it as a "gentler synonym" for anti-gun activists. I chose to use it because it applied equally well to the pro-gun Gun Digest assault weapons books.
montana Wrote:This is where I disagree, exposing the lefts meaningless term for banning firearms exposes their meaningless accusations. Maybe not for the hopeless kool aid drinkers, but for the fence sitters and uninformed voters, "who can still use logic and reason" it can have a positive effect.That seems rather like wishful thinking to me. Unless you can provide some evidence that any fence sitters have been positively affected by ridicule of the "assault weapon" term?
montana Wrote:Whats wrong with feeling smug and self-righteous?Color me skeptical. Judging by the comments, the only folks who view her videos are devout gun guys. She's preaching to the choir, and getting the predictable "Amen" response.
It is the undecided voters she could have a positive effect on.
History of assault rifle :) - montana - 05-30-2018
stanc Wrote::confused: I was addressing your remark that you assumed I opted to employ the word "user" as a gentler synonym for "ravenous anti second amendment hoplophobe".
I did not use it as a "gentler synonym" for anti-gun activists. I chose to use it because it applied equally well to the pro-gun Gun Digest assault weapons books.
OK
stanc Wrote:That seems rather like wishful thinking to me. Unless you can provide some evidence that any fence sitters have been positively affected by ridicule of the "assault weapon" term?
No hard evidence, just the understanding of logic and reason. If a term has no real meaning other than the propaganda value for the dim witted or click bait to sell gun digest books, the intelligent voters will see through it's pointlessness. I know this is asking a lot from many voters, but doing nothing is even less productive.
stanc Wrote:Color me skeptical. Judging by the comments, the only folks who view her videos are devout gun guys. She's preaching to the choir, and getting the predictable "Amen" response.
Kind of like on this forum LOL. It is easy to turn up one's feet and give up, or say it is pointless, but many of us refuse to think that way. Faith in right or wrong, God, freedom, etc maybe hard for many to understand, but it does motivate many of us. Yea, having faith in something is what it is all about and the fortitude to never quit. We can only hope our faith is for the right things and does good instead of evil. No argument here.