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+--- Thread: LFP Comment Thread (/showthread.php?tid=12521)
LFP Comment Thread - rickOshay - 01-16-2017
This thread is intended to be for comments and suggestions for the reference thread on Lead Free Projectiles (LFPs):http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?13324-Lead-Free-Projectiles-for-the-G.5-Grendel
In October 2013, the California legislature passed a bill that will ban the use of lead-containing ammunition for all game anywhere in CA effective July 2019. It has been partially implemented already, based on type of ammo and location. Many expect this ban to set the example for other states to follow in the near future. As stated, I compiled my results in one thread for convenience for the Grendel reloader.
I plan on continuing to add to the thread as new LFPs come available and I find the time to get to the range. Once the basic data is complete for all the LFPs on the list, I plan to add load data and perhaps more high speed videos of gel impacts.
There likely will be vigorous discussion over the maximum range data. To date, I have had to estimate the muzzle velocities of many of these LFPs because I have not had time to do load development. Also, I have not done an exhaustive search for loads already posted here, and other sites. I will update these data as I get time to develop loads for my 20 Grendel, and as others provide their load results.
And there are those who do not like LFPs for hunting, and have had terrible results with them. I have published these data to show the potential of these projectiles from a 20 barrel based on the velocity required to begin expansion. I am not recommending these over lead-based projectiles. But as mentioned above, one day those in CA wont have a choice.
Some may question the use of a 20 barrel as the reference. There are many who advocate 16 and 18 barrels for all round versatility while retaining effective hunting ranges for popular projectiles. I am using a 20 barrel here because it is a compromise between the 16 and 24 extremes. And, after all, it is what I have (now).
My near term priorities for LFP work are:
1. Gel data for Cutting Edge MTH
2. Gel data for the 107 GSC HV to confirm Minimum Velocity
3. Gel data for the Cutting Edge Raptor when it arrives.
4. Load data for all. Likely start with CFE223 and H335.
5. High speed videos of the LFPs hitting gels.
I welcome your comments and inputs.
rickOsay.
LFP Comment Thread - BluntForceTrauma - 01-16-2017
Great work! This is gonna be a treasure of data.
LFP Comment Thread - rabiddawg - 01-16-2017
Thanks for sharing this Rick. Very professionally done.
LFP Comment Thread - rickOshay - 01-17-2017
Links updated. Working on setting up links to high speed videos
LFP Comment Thread - Maddvaper - 01-17-2017
Barnes also makes a tsx / ttsx all copper bullet I'm looking at shooting next season
LFP Comment Thread - rickOshay - 01-17-2017
Maddvaper Wrote:Barnes also makes a tsx / ttsx all copper bullet I'm looking at shooting next season
Are you referring to the 120 gr TSX ? I've not pursued that one because I favored the tipped version.
LFP Comment Thread - sneaky one - 01-20-2017
Awesome job ROS ! Yes, these bullets need to have a lighter wt. version of each-- for the Grrrr. I have tried about half of the samples, at stock wt., and lighter wt's.
The impact speeds really help make the peel back shine, inside of 300 yds., that max range was my goal. It took a few years until some better powders became available to get the speeds I wanted.
80 grns.= 2975 fps, in a 16" tube.
Thinking of taking the plunge on my new Faxon 16" tube,,, by doing the Grr max- Lite version- for AR's instead of bolties..== 75 % of the bolt gun gains. That Von Gruff got.
I Just need to call Manson reamers.
My goal is 90 GMX @ 3000 in the 16" Faxon . This would make any 123 pills cup& core look marginal in a 20" tube., by a comparison.
The 130 TSX, cut down to 90 grns, is my second choice behind the lighter GMX's. 4 grooves, allow for a small amount of speed increases. Not a gilding metal, not as tuff as a GMX. Still very effective tho.
If in doubt of LFP's- check my Nov. hunting thread posting-- I got lucky last Saturday. That deer was HUGE. A 77 Gmx took him down, 26" of penetration.
Fist sized hole through the spinal coloumn. I hate the fact that I , & all of us probably had lead in our venison for years.
LFP Comment Thread - s3silver - 01-21-2017
I'm in nor-cal and am facing the same regulations soon. I'm 2 seasons in using the Barnes TTSX 100 gr. Started experimenting with these in 2015 and have pretty much stuck with them for deer hunting after seeing the terminal performance. So far 4 bucks and 1 bear between the wife and me. All shot within 60-120 yards. 2 bucks DRT, other 2 and bear did not make it more than 20 yards. All hit behind the shoulder. No tracking needed so far.
Entry/ exit hole not impressive until you start to skin. That's where the apparent entry and exit holes are impressive. Insides are pretty much jello.
Shooting these out of 2 AR's. The mrs' shoots a 16" ar stoner in 6.5 Grendel and mine's a 22" shilen in 6.5 LBC. Both 1:8 twists. Same load for both rifles. 16" is sending them ~ 2650 fps. 22" ~ 2800 fps. Benchmark powder on the hot side, cci450, hornady brass, 2.200" col, slightly compressed. Don't know about other LFP's, but the ttsx likes speed. That faster I pushed them the tighter they shot. Both rifles will consistently hold moa or less out to 400 yards.
Hope this info is useful for those who want to try out LFP's.
LFP Comment Thread - Boostmeister - 01-21-2017
Considering Obama's last executive action going after gun owners and fishermen, this is excellent work rickOshay. Thanks for taking the lead.
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20170120/obama-says-goodbye-to-america-s-gun-owners-with-a-likely-short-lived-lead-ammo-ban
LFP Comment Thread - rickOshay - 01-21-2017
Boostmeister Wrote:Considering Obama's last executive action going after gun owners and fishermen, this is excellent work rickOshay. Thanks for taking the lead.
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20170120/obama-says-goodbye-to-america-s-gun-owners-with-a-likely-short-lived-lead-ammo-ban
Hopefully Trump will overturn it. But who knows? He is a dealmaker, and may see this as a way to appease the environmentalists.
LFP Comment Thread - PA_Allen - 01-21-2017
ROS
Fabulous work. I know it takes a lot of time and effort. Thank you for doing this.
- PA
LFP Comment Thread - rickOshay - 01-22-2017
The 100 gr Cutting Edge Raptors have arrived, and they are long. See post in the summary sticky for details.
For BluntForceTrama, they are significantly longer than the Cereberus, and the cavity is over twice as deep.
LFP Comment Thread - rickOshay - 01-22-2017
PA_Allen Wrote:ROS
Fabulous work. I know it takes a lot of time and effort. Thank you for doing this.
- PA
Thanks PA.
LFP Comment Thread - rickOshay - 01-29-2017
Group photos and summary table updated to include the 100 gr Raptor.
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?13324-Lead-Free-Projectiles-for-the-6.5-Grendel
LFP Comment Thread - rickOshay - 02-19-2017
Added videos of the following projectiles hitting ballistic gel. Hope to get more once it stops raining here.
95 Controlled Chaos
140 Naturalis
at the 95 VMAX at 2800 fps for reference at the bottom of the list.
LFP Comment Thread - am4966 - 02-21-2017
have you gave any thought to using the Nosler E-Tip 120gr
Noticed you are my bad
LFP Comment Thread - Schrambo - 02-21-2017
Maybe Maker? Anyone try these?? https://www.makerbullets.com/products.php?cat=3&scri=58,43
LFP Comment Thread - rickOshay - 02-21-2017
Nice find. 85 - 140 gr LPGs. At good prices.
Order placed.
Sneaky should try the 85 gr
LFP Comment Thread - rickOshay - 03-12-2017
The 110 gr TREX from Maker has arrived. Lead Free Bullets for the Grendel
The 85 gr is on its way. The proprietor of Maker has already tested the 85 gr and showed that it fits the Grendel velocities nicely:
Opening up to .40 cal at 1660 fps and staying together at 2600 fps.
He is sending me a 95 gr version that will also open up to about .40 in the 1600s and retain nearly all of its weight at 2600 like the 85 gr shown above.
I think Sneaky and BFT should be happy with either of these.
LFP Comment Thread - BluntForceTrauma - 03-12-2017
Lookin' good!