Sorry to Have to Bring this to Our Attention....

[NugginFutz]

Let's not, in our rush to judgement, throw the baby out with the bathwater, here.

From Troy Industry's Facebook Page:

"The accusations that Mr. Monroe would have taken a shot at Vicki Weaver are false. His Congressional testimony affirms that had he a better vantage point, he was prepared to shoot at Kevin Harris, the armed combatant posing an immediate threat to him, his team, and everyone at the scene.

Tragedy lies in the fact that the shot intended for Kevin Harris reached its target, but also struck Vicki Weaver, positioned out of sight, behind a door. For the past 20 years, Mr. Monroe has shared his experiences across the country through many presentations and a television appearance. During these presentations, he explained the mistakes which led up to the tragedy and the valuable lessons learned from the event. While nothing can change what happened that day, Dale’s firsthand account imparts valuable tools to our nation’s law enforcement. I’m confident that his experience at that incident taught him more than the other countless successful missions he completed as an FBI HRT Operator.

It’s easy in an emotionally charged situation where a mother’s life has been taken, to lose sight of the facts. In our most trying times and failures we have an opportunity to rise above and distinguish ourselves to be people of character and honor. I know Dale Monroe to be such a man.

As a Troy Asymmetric instructor, he has the opportunity to prevent future tragedies like Ruby Ridge. We are proud to have him on our team.

-Steve Troy"

[LRRPF52]

The accusations that Mr. Monroe would have taken a shot at Vicki Weaver are false. His Congressional testimony affirms that had he a better vantage point, he was prepared to shoot at Kevin Harris, the armed combatant posing an immediate threat to him, his team, and everyone at the scene.

He never said he would shoot Vicki Weaver, he said during Congressional testimony that he would have taken the same shot that Lon did if he had the same vantage point. Neither of them should have been on the ridge in the first place. They should have refused the unconstitutional ROE, and called their lawyers.

The fact is, they were told that these "crazies" had just gunned down a US Marshal in cold blood. My assessment of the whole massacre was that you had LEO's who finally were getting their chance to play commando, and what better opportunity than with a former Army SF Weapons Sergeant, who they have been told is manufacturing meth, making machineguns, and is a white supremacist, who by the way, has just murdered a US Marshal.

Putting myself into their shoes, and having done similar missions in a military capacity on a regular basis, we always wanted to know the quality of our intel. We had to follow very strict ROE, even to the point that it jeopardized our lives on multiple occasions.

Ruby Ridge is an incident that illustrates how the perverse actions of one agency can easily escalate into a massive abortion of epic proportions. Remember that this all started because the ATF wanted another CI to infil the Aryan Nation, and they felt that entrapment was a great way to get Weaver after he refused. This man was innocent, and just wanted to stay to himself with his family in their cabin (labeled a "compound" by the FBI).

If a Special Forces Weapons Sergeant and a few loyal friends/family wanted to really cause problems for the Feds, they would have never made it up the hill in the first place, and their air assets would have been wreckage at the bottom of the hill. This was just a family that wanted to be left alone.

If Dale Monroe's efforts can help LE agencies recognize the importance of seeking due diligence in establishing just cause for executing high-risk incident responses, by vetting the BS warrants of judges and US Attorneys who back the ATF, then he will be a miracle-worker.

[LR1955]

Guys:

Until Bill gets a chance to read all of this and make a decision, I will close the thread. I think it is more directed against Troy Industries than it is towards the 2A.

It is already getting out of hand so I will lock it until Bill reads everything and makes a decision.

No offense intended towards LR52 or anyone else here.

And just for those who are scared of being banned. If a person insults me or Bill, or wantonly disobeys our requests, they will be banned for a period of time. Bill and I moderate on our time. We don't get paid for it and we don't have a lot of time to argue with people.

R1955

[bwaites]

I tend to agree with LR1955 on this. While you can make anything firearms related into a 2A discussion, this is really more about government gone bad than about a 2A issue per se. It is firearms related, but its not related directly to a 2A challenge. Yes, Troy made some bad hiring decisions regarding the ex-Chicago cop that is anti-2A, but thats still not a 2A issue, because he doesn't impact anyones ability to exercise their 2A rights.

As for Horiuchi's companion shooter, well, that's a decision Troy may very well regret. I do believe that individuals may make mistakes, and that future actions may rectify those mistakes, but it does certainly put some shadow on his ability to teach proper response to threat.

I'm leaving the thread up so that people can make their own decisions on Troy, but will leave the thread closed to further comment.