trouble choosing a scope. two options inside

[Raider1v1]

6.5-20x50 Sightron SII Big Sky
8-32x56 Sightron SIII

what do you guys think?

http://sightron.com/index.php?action=view_document&did=1201816362&cat_id=15&id=32

http://sightron.com/index.php?action=view_document&did=1201816362&cat_id=6&id=148

This is going onto a 24" bull barreled AA.

[warped]

Neither, get a Vortex for the money you cannot go wrong.

With those scopes you will be limited in application.

If you plan on doing anything other than target shooting the lower end of magnification will be too much.

Try something in 2.5-10x with good glass and features you will get out to 600-800 yds, you can ask the others it is amazing what you can do with that scope.

If you are only going to shoot F class then a higher magnification may work well, but sightron glass is not that good.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-2-5-10x44-riflescope-with-ebr-1-mrad-reticle

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-4-16x50-ffp-riflescope-with-ebr-1-mrad-reticle

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-6-24x50-ffp-riflescope-with-ebr-1-mrad-reticle

[Raider1v1]

Neither, get a Vortex for the money you cannot go wrong.

With those scopes you will be limited in application.

If you plan on doing anything other than target shooting the lower end of magnification will be too much.

Try something in 2.5-10x with good glass and features you will get out to 600-800 yds, you can ask the others it is amazing what you can do with that scope.

If you are only going to shoot F class then a higher magnification may work well, but sightron glass is not that good.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-2-5-10x44-riflescope-with-ebr-1-mrad-reticle

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-4-16x50-ffp-riflescope-with-ebr-1-mrad-reticle

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...1-mrad-reticle

I had a viper, but i sold it and bought a sightron SII Big Sky 6.5-20 instead. IMO the sightron is a lot better glass.

I just wasnt sure about the magnification. I know that 32 is a bit high, but ill have that option to use it if i need it. The low end is only 2 power different. Thats the thing that's making me think about getting the higher end. I wont be using this for anything closer than 100yds.

[LRRPF52]

+ 10 on the Vortex.

If you have not purchased a purpose-built optic for precision shooting before, I can't recommend the Vortex Viper series enough. Even if you have experience with a ton of higher-end optics, you still need to take a look at Vortex. For the price, you are getting way more scope, really.

That first Sightron you listed has a 1" tube, so that would be a no-go for my personal selection criteria, but I don't know exactly what you're doing with your rifle either. The second Sightron you listed also has capped knobs, another major no-go for long-range shooting per most people's preferences as well. Since you stated it's going on a 24" bull-barreled rifle, I'm assuming that you're leaning more to seeing what your Grendel can do at distance.

For that length and weight of rifle, I personally would get the Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50. I'm not sure what your budget is, but you definitely want to make the best choices...to include secure mounting with MOA cant if necessary. If the 4-16x50 is too pricey, get the 2.5-10x44 Viper PST, I've been using one on my .260 Rem AR10, and it's and excellent little piece of glass. I have to say that they are very comparable to NightForce in glass quality, features, reliability, and click quality.

Don't mess with scopes that will not give you enough elevation and windage to reach out, have only 1" tube diameters if you are shooting past 400 and 500 yds, have capped knobs, have cheap gears that break, foggy glass, or mushy turrets. There are only a few companies that make optics worthy of serious use, especially when it comes to spending serious money on ammo and range time. Don't cheat yourself by going with something that will cost you the money you could have invested even a good mount, and a savings plan installment on an appropriate optic.

Vortex somehow broke the affordability mold, and offers all the high-end features normally found on other scopes, to include actual quality and a great overall optic. I normally have bought scopes that cost well over $1-$2k, otherwise I don't take them seriously. I gave Vortex a try, and have been very impressed with several of their products already, and I abuse them to see if they'll fail, and let my friends run them through extreme conditions to see what they'll do. So far, they track dead-on through severe temperature tests on semi-autos, to include the Grendel.

LRRPF52

[Raider1v1]

+ 10 on the Vortex.

If you have not purchased a purpose-built optic for precision shooting before, I can't recommend the Vortex Viper series enough. Even if you have experience with a ton of higher-end optics, you still need to take a look at Vortex. For the price, you are getting way more scope, really.

That first Sightron you listed has a 1" tube, so that would be a no-go for my personal selection criteria, but I don't know exactly what you're doing with your rifle either. The second Sightron you listed also has capped knobs, another major no-go for long-range shooting per most people's preferences as well. Since you stated it's going on a 24" bull-barreled rifle, I'm assuming that you're leaning more to seeing what your Grendel can do at distance.

For that length and weight of rifle, I personally would get the Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50. I'm not sure what your budget is, but you definitely want to make the best choices...to include secure mounting with MOA cant if necessary. If the 4-16x50 is too pricey, get the 2.5-10x44 Viper PST, I've been using one on my .260 Rem AR10, and it's and excellent little piece of glass. I have to say that they are very comparable to NightForce in glass quality, features, reliability, and click quality.

Don't mess with scopes that will not give you enough elevation and windage to reach out, have only 1" tube diameters if you are shooting past 400 and 500 yds, have capped knobs, have cheap gears that break, foggy glass, or mushy turrets. There are only a few companies that make optics worthy of serious use, especially when it comes to spending serious money on ammo and range time. Don't cheat yourself by going with something that will cost you the money you could have invested even a good mount, and a savings plan installment on an appropriate optic.

Vortex somehow broke the affordability mold, and offers all the high-end features normally found on other scopes, to include actual quality and a great overall optic. I normally have bought scopes that cost well over $1-$2k, otherwise I don't take them seriously. I gave Vortex a try, and have been very impressed with several of their products already, and I abuse them to see if they'll fail, and let my friends run them through extreme conditions to see what they'll do. So far, they track dead-on through severe temperature tests on semi-autos, to include the Grendel.

LRRPF52

interesting. i had a viper 4-16x44 and it was comparable to the nikon monarch that i still have. are you saying the the viper PST's are better than the sightrons?

i understand your point about the 1in tube vs the 30mm sightron does make a 30mm version as well found here - http://sightron.com/index.php?action...&cat_id=6&id=4

the issue is that where i am at when you look for something good they point you to either nikon/burris/bushnell for "medium priced" or Leopold/ziess for "higher priced" nobody has anything else in stock. i took a chance with the first viper and it wasnt bad, but IMO the glass was better on the sightrons.

the covered turret is just a protector, if i take the cap off on mine theres a target style turret underneath it.

besides the illuminated reticle, what are the features the SIII sightron doesnt have the viper does? the sightron 6-24 has 100 windage & elevation travel vs the 65 of the viper

[LRRPF52]

I was talking about the Viper PST's. I also bought a 6.5-20x44 Vortex Viper, and have been more than impressed with it.

The Viper PST's have the zero-stop, and great turrets. Illumination is not a deciding factor for me because I don't use it.

There are very few scope makers who have glass that maintains great light transmission in the higher powers...above 10x or 12x, which I rarely shoot at. The ones that have impressed me in the higher powers are USO, Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, Zeiss/Hensoldt, and March. Of course, we're talking about 4-5x the price of Viper PST's and Sightron SIII's though.

I can't afford to spend $3-$4k for optics for every one of my rifles just yet, so the Viper PST's offer me most of the features I'm looking for, at affordable prices. With the 4-16x50 Viper PST, you can get FFP, and it has 21 Mils of turret travel.

I would mount either of those scopes on an MOA cant anyway for 1000yd shooting, but that wouldn't be for a Grendel anyway, except on perfectly-clear wind condition time envelopes.

My opinion on the higher-power tactical scopes is that they are for the big boy calibers like .338 LM, or cartridges that can reach out 1500yds and beyond. If I'm putting together a rig like that, I will not let cost be a determining factor on the scope selection, so it will get $2500+ glass without hesitation. For a rifle that will be used within 700yds, 10 or 12x is all you really need. I have yet to meet a scope that is under $1k that offers high magnification, especially in the 20x range, that doesn't suffer from light-gathering degradation from the better image in its lower-power settings.

The other thing that leans in Vortex's favor is the fully-transferable lifetime warranty, with no questions asked. For glass and image quality, we would have to put the two scopes side-by-side, but my biggest concern is reliability over glass quality. I've had an S&B PMII take a dump on me while shooting .338 LM day after day, and it was useless after that. I've never seen that happen with a NF yet, or the Vortex's, so a $4200 scope with truly world-class glass, but a broken side focus looks like garbage when you look through it. I'm not sure what Sightron's reliability record is, or their warranty. I know some bench guys that like them for an entry rifle, but without a side-to-side, I still would lean to the PST's for the reliability, zero-stop, FFP, and positive click values.

LRRPF52

[rushmc]

I really like mine!

+ 10 on the Vortex.

If you have not purchased a purpose-built optic for precision shooting before, I can't recommend the Vortex Viper series enough. Even if you have experience with a ton of higher-end optics, you still need to take a look at Vortex. For the price, you are getting way more scope, really.

That first Sightron you listed has a 1" tube, so that would be a no-go for my personal selection criteria, but I don't know exactly what you're doing with your rifle either. The second Sightron you listed also has capped knobs, another major no-go for long-range shooting per most people's preferences as well. Since you stated it's going on a 24" bull-barreled rifle, I'm assuming that you're leaning more to seeing what your Grendel can do at distance.

For that length and weight of rifle, I personally would get the Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50. I'm not sure what your budget is, but you definitely want to make the best choices...to include secure mounting with MOA cant if necessary. If the 4-16x50 is too pricey, get the 2.5-10x44 Viper PST, I've been using one on my .260 Rem AR10, and it's and excellent little piece of glass. I have to say that they are very comparable to NightForce in glass quality, features, reliability, and click quality.

Don't mess with scopes that will not give you enough elevation and windage to reach out, have only 1" tube diameters if you are shooting past 400 and 500 yds, have capped knobs, have cheap gears that break, foggy glass, or mushy turrets. There are only a few companies that make optics worthy of serious use, especially when it comes to spending serious money on ammo and range time. Don't cheat yourself by going with something that will cost you the money you could have invested even a good mount, and a savings plan installment on an appropriate optic.

Vortex somehow broke the affordability mold, and offers all the high-end features normally found on other scopes, to include actual quality and a great overall optic. I normally have bought scopes that cost well over $1-$2k, otherwise I don't take them seriously. I gave Vortex a try, and have been very impressed with several of their products already, and I abuse them to see if they'll fail, and let my friends run them through extreme conditions to see what they'll do. So far, they track dead-on through severe temperature tests on semi-autos, to include the Grendel.

LRRPF52

[warped]

Hey man, who are you?????

hehehehe

[rushmc]

Ah

who is askin?

[warped]

I have no idea, what guns?

[ARMANIAC]

Mark IV 8.5-25x50 mildot Leupold PRW rings 10 moa base from WOA= 800+ yards all day

[MrSurgicalPrecision]

What is your intention for the rifle? What's the maximum range you're going to shoot? Target or hunting or both? I've had a few Sightrons, still have one, a fixed 36X. It's good for a target scope. I have it in 20 MOA bases and can't zero it any closer than 400 yards with my 6.5-284, which is fine because I shoot that rifle strictly at 800-1000 yards.

I'm running a Millett LRS-1 6-25X56 35 mm tube on my 24" bbl Grendel. It's a massive scope and a bit much for the rifle, but it has 140 MOA of travel to get me as far as I want to go. It tracks good and the glass is OK.

I agree with LRRPF2 though, you don't need that much magnification on a Grendel. 16X is plenty.

[Raider1v1]

What is your intention for the rifle? What's the maximum range you're going to shoot? Target or hunting or both? I've had a few Sightrons, still have one, a fixed 36X. It's good for a target scope. I have it in 20 MOA bases and can't zero it any closer than 400 yards with my 6.5-284, which is fine because I shoot that rifle strictly at 800-1000 yards.

I'm running a Millett LRS-1 6-25X56 35 mm tube on my 24" bbl Grendel. It's a massive scope and a bit much for the rifle, but it has 140 MOA of travel to get me as far as I want to go. It tracks good and the glass is OK.

I agree with LRRPF2 though, you don't need that much magnification on a Grendel. 16X is plenty.

i ended up picking the 8-32x56. it has plenty of adjustment. the reason why is that i have wanted to go above the 20x that i have now and didnt have it available. I very rarely use anything under 9x so that was my thought process.

as far as what im shooting, im mainly target, but i will have the rifle in time for my prairie dog trip in july. im going to zero it at 300 and see where that gets me.

[Bob Duncan]

I recently got a Sightron SIII 8-32x56 with the MOA-2 reticle and MOA turrets. The elevation/windage spec for this scope is 70 MOA of adjustment. Sightron claims that the elevation and windage are optically centered by the factory. The one I got was at least mechanically centered with 39.5 (not a typo) MOA of adjusment both above and below the original factory setting. I set up a target at 500 yards and the clarity and focus all the way to 32x is excellent. My usual scope choice is Nightforce NXS and the SIII is its equal to my eye. I zeroed the scope at 100 yards on an AR-15 that has a tactical handguard. The scope height is 3 inches. I had to mount it with a high 1-piece base to clear the objective bell above the handguard rail. After zeroing, the scope still has 44 MOA of elevation travel remaining.

[LRRPF52]

The differences between the NF and most other scopes is the way they mount their glass, build their turrets, and build their springs. NF uses Titanium leaf springs for the turrets, that are tumble-polished and then compressed for 2 weeks before they are QC'd. If they don't return to spring memory, they don't cut it. It's one of the reasons why NF has the best reliability record so far, especially with heavy-hitting calibers.

44 MOA of usable elevation from a 100 yard zero will give you something like 12.8 Mils, which is probably more than plenty for a Grendel, as 44 MOA of drop will be well after you have gone subsonic. I just ran a 123gr .264" projectile with a .233 G7 form factor in Berger's ballistic program, at 2670 fps with 10mph cross wind full value at 3 o'clock:

Range Velocity Energy Trajectory TOF Drift
(yards) (fps) (ft-lb) (MOA) (sec) (MOA)
0 2670 1947 0.00 0.0000 0.00
100 2476 1675 -0.00 0.1167 -0.73
200 2291 1433 -2.00 0.2426 -1.51
300 2114 1220 -4.77 0.3789 -2.35
400 1944 1032 -8.03 0.5269 -3.26
500 1782 867 -11.74 0.6881 -4.25
600 1626 722 -15.96 0.8643 -5.33
700 1476 595 -20.78 1.0580 -6.52
800 1333 486 -26.30 1.2718 -7.84
900 1199 393 -32.68 1.5091 -9.31
1000 1085 321 -40.11 1.7731 -10.93

To me, the 700yd data on this one is the farthest I would use it at, since that is about 2 Mils of wind drift, but that's just me. I can't get the data to space out on here, so I bolded the range and MOA figures, and italicized the muzzle velocities.

LRRPF52