Help with thermal decisions.

[CJW]

Guys,

In the next couple of days I want to buy a thermal scope.

There are 3 that I have been considering in my price range.

1. Pulsar Core RXQ30V. 1.6-6.4X. $1,900

2.Flir PTS233 1.5X619 (60HZ). $2,200

3. ATN Thor 4 1.25 -5X. $2,000


Which would you buy and why?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Chuck 2142 hrs, Sunday, 18 August 2019

[dl126]

I dunno how much value this will be to you but ....

The NV forum of arfcom has some knowledgeable and experienced folks in it.
They pretty much all say to RUN from anything ATN.

I gave ATN a chance with a 4K Pro NV unit last year.
Figured all the people having problems just weren't reading directions.
Wound up returning that POS.
Not what you're looking at, but I considered it a valuable insight into how the company does business.
I won't go thru that again.

I haven't used the PTS233.
Like you, I considered it.
General consensus that I've read is that it works, but will leaving you longing for more.
Detection pretty good, ID pretty bad after a few yards downrange.
Again, I don't have experience with it.
But $2.2K was more than I wanted to gamble on.

I wound up with a Pulsar Apex XQ38 because a friend has a XQ50 and after looking thru his, I kinda knew what to expect.
I'm pleased with it.
And turned out that my 38 is far beyond his 50.
I assume this is due to software/hardware advances between production dates. (His was already 2/3 years old)

I don't know anything about your Pulsar Core contender.
It's a trustworthy brand IMO.
But I'd damn sure do lots of research/reading before laying out the $.

Links for ya ...

http://atnowners.com

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Night-Vision/18/

[Double Naught Spy]

Chuck, what are you hunting and how far. I have been involved with thermal for the last several years and am pro staff for Third Coast Thermal.

I have used the FLIR and the Pulsar. I will let dl126's assessment of ATN stand.

My guess is that unless you are what I call a barnyard hunter or an extremely infrequent hunter, you will be buying two thermal scopes within the next year if you get the FLIR or Pulsar.

Have you checked out the videos from each on Youtube? There are folks that say you can shoot stuff out to 200 yards with either the 233 or Pulsar alphanumeric scope (can't recall all the letters and numbers, LOL) and you can, but identification is a significant issue. Under ideal circumstance, you can, but otherwise they are getting 100 yard and closer scopes and even at 100 yards, it can be challenging to make identifications. You really don't want to confuse a calf for a hog.

Most of the folks that I know that got the 233 either sold it and upgraded or saved it as a spotting scope and/or for use on a second gun. Folks getting the Pulsar all got rid of them except for one guy that I know and he was truly a barnyard hunter. He uses it for skunks, racoons, foxes, and coyotes around his house and barnyard and rarely shoots over 50 yards. He doesn't have cats or dogs to worry about misidentifying. The scope was a good fit for him because it meets his needs.

Here is probably the best video of the FLIR PTS233. Environmental conditions appear to be very good. Grass is short. Those are coyotes at fairly long distance and unlike most people, these guys show the distance. While those are coyotes and any thermal hunter would recognize those as coyotes, actually identifying them as such is a whole other matter. Still, this is about the absolute best you can expect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9XT_lW-MIY

What I disdain about the FLIR scopes is that they have about 5 different electronic ways to adjust the image quality given the environmental conditions. FIVE! They all need to work in harmony to get the most from your scope. I found that to be a pain in the butt and generally only worked with the brightness and contrast once I found a generalized setting for the other 3 that worked well enough. The Pulsar has only brightness and contrast.

The Pulsar has a hideous green output that serves no real purpose that I can discern.

Choosing between the FLIR and Pulsar, I would go with the FLIR as being more usable.

Other considerations...Pulsar as the best CS in the industry. FLIR has problematic CS.

If you can find an Pulsar Apex (no longer made) for sale, you would improve your capabilities substantially.

[dl126]

A buying tip for you ....

Thermal imaging is something that I have personally seen make a full grown man giggle like a school girl the first time they looked thru it.
It's funny to watch actually. (DNS has probably seen it many times)
But on the flip side, it can possibly make that full grown man throw $ at something that is not what he needs, or is crap equipment to begin with.

Don't be that guy ....

[CJW]

Thanks so much for everyone?s input. In Georgia it is a rare hunt where you can take a shot over 100 yards. 90:% of my shots are 50 yards and under. Pigs, coyotes and raccoons are what I hunt the most.

I have 3 NV scopes that have served me well. Two Photon RT?s and a Wraith. My Photons are just the best, haven?t killed anything with the Wraith yet.

Trying to set up a pig hunt in Texas around the 15th of next month and I really want a Thermal.

All my life I have lived in Georgia and hunted in Texas.

You guys have really given me some food for thought.

Thanks,
Chuck

[lazyengineer]

All I have to add is there are some Fantastic replies here, and I'm bookmarking this page! The short answer is whatever DNS says buy - buy that.

For what it's worth, I did just post on the cheaper IR option optics. Not what your asking, but for someone who's also trying to explore the topic, might interest you some.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?20303-Life-with-an-ATN-X-Sight-II-on-a-Grendel&p=236763#post236763

[CJW]

Engineer,
Thanks for the reply. I did the exact same thing you did. Bought a cheap IR scope from overseas.
Pure shite, thank God I bought it on Amazon where it was returnable.

I have Photon RT?s and I really like them. You know, I?m not so sure that an entry level thermal would be as good as my Photons.

Looked at the ATN?s at the Shot Show, way too much going on with those scopes.

ATN has a less than stellar reputation for customer service. I won?t bore you with the details, one of my hunting buddies had an unbelievable event with ATN on a warranty issue on a scope that was 9 days old.

I had a problem with my new Wraith, SightMark sent me a new scope in 4 days.

I?m still on the fence........

Live Big,

Chuck

[dl126]

I'd like to add a bit of insight based on my experiences with thermal.
Not really buying decision related, but maybe more "purchase justification" oriented.

I got mine last November on a Black Friday sale from Optics Planet.
Wound up not long after buying the external battery and QD mount for it.
Didn't know for sure what the hell I'd use it for.
We don't yet have a pig problem in my area, and it's against the law to hunt anything but raccoon outside normal, published shooting hours.
But I wanted the capability. (Yea I guess it kinda made me giggle like a school girl too)

What most of us see and read online is all about night hunting with thermal.
But I can tell you, it's a huge benefit in the daylight hours as well.

A month or so before squirrel season closed last year, I got together with a neighbor that has a dog he hunts with.
If you've ever hunted those bushy tailed tree rats, you already know how hard it can be to find them even after the leaves fall off.
NOT a problem using thermal.
I put the scope on my .22LR and hit the woods.
Unless they're on the opposite side of the tree, they aren't gonna hide from you.
Even in cedar and pine trees, they glow like neon.
I was able to locate critters hiding in old nests, shallow holes in trees, and one tree that was hollow but split all the way down. (Kept shooting just below him and drove him out the top)
It got to the point that when we got outta the truck, I'd scan the trees, find the critters, and then wait for the dog to find them.
On one trip, we came home with 8 squirrels, and my hunting partner never saw 6 of them until they hit the ground.

And how many times have you been walking back to the truck from your deer stand only to see the infamous "white flag" 30 yards ahead waving like the flag of truce in a tornado?
You already know how hard it can be to spot deer even 20 yards away in thick hardwoods or especially if there's undergrowth.
Using thermal, take a step and scan.
If he's there, you'll most likely see him.
Maybe you engage immediately ... or maybe you can discern which way he's going and you work your way downstream for interception.

It'll work for rabbits in the grass as well.
Didn't take any, but I coulda.

Really the only limit to benefit is your ability to find uses for it.
If the need ever arose for you to hunt whatever you needed to feed your family, thermal would go a long way toward keeping their belly full.

If you can't tell, I'm really pleased with the thermal experience.

PS Thermal is one of those areas where the amount you spend is directly linked to what you get.
If your budget it $2.5K, DO NOT look thru a $8K+ Trijicon after you've bought yours.
Yours will immediately suck forevermore.

[CJW]

You boys just saved me from making a hasty decision and throwing away $2,500.
Thanks so much for everyone?s input here and by private message.

I am still going to get a Thermal, only in the $3,000to $3,500 range

You have no idea how much I enjoy 6.5 Grendel
I learn something interesting every day.


Going to Texas next month to shoot my first pig with my brand new Grendel.

I am excited to say the least.

[Grendelshooter]

This thread is relevant to my interests-hence the resurrection.
OP what did you end up with?

I?m moving to rural Oklahoma. Got my job to transfer me from urban central California to heavenly rural Oklahoma. I?ll need a good general purpose thermal optic that I can use for everything from guarding the hen house to night hunting and target shooting.

I?ll have clear fields of fire for several hindered yards in every direction, and I?d like to be able to cover the 5 acres our house is on.

[CJW]

Grendelshooter,

I haven’t bought one yet. Going to pick one up at the Shot Show in January.

It will not be an ATN, way too much bad press.

I will run the purchase by DNS on this forum before purchase. DNS really has his act together.

Chuck

[Grendelshooter]

Ah sorry to bother. Not a bad idea to wait till after shot show.
DNS does seem to be the go to guy here about thermals.

[CJW]

No bother at all!

DNS kept me from making a huge $2,000.00 mistake. He knows thermals inside and out.

Check out his videos, they are fascinating. Especially the damage done by various bullets.

[Double Naught Spy]

Grendelshooter, drop me a PM and we can discuss some of your needs in more detail and I will make all the disclaimers, LOL.

[Grendelshooter]

You got it! PM sent