Rifle Scope Comparison

[BR17722]

RE: Nightforce NXS 3.5-15 X 50mm.

Which Vortex riflescope is "about equal" to this Nighforce riflescope?

Which Vortex riflescope is "perhaps one step below" this Nightforce riflescope?

I prefer second focal plane riflescopes.

Thanks for your help !

[LR1955]

RE: Nightforce NXS 3.5-15 X 50mm.

Which Vortex riflescope is "about equal" to this Nighforce riflescope?

Which Vortex riflescope is "perhaps one step below" this Nightforce riflescope?

I prefer second focal plane riflescopes.

Thanks for your help !

BR1:

Want to compare optics? See what the top competitors are using. You may not buy one but at least you can see what company is in most demand by said competitors.

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/12/21/best-scope/

Just note you didn't say what you wanted the optic for, distances you are shooting, target characteristics, and about everything else that would lead someone to one optic over another.

LR55

[centerfire]

RE: Nightforce NXS 3.5-15 X 50mm.

Which Vortex riflescope is "about equal" to this Nighforce riflescope?

Which Vortex riflescope is "perhaps one step below" this Nightforce riflescope?

I prefer second focal plane riflescopes.

Thanks for your help !

If you're talking about an original second focal plane NXS they line up closest optically with the new Vortex Viper PST Gen 2. However, the NXS erector is higher quality and probably closest to a Razor Gen 1. Unfortunately none of the Razor scopes are second focal plane. The NXS is pretty dated at this point and I think the PST Gen 2 SFP will be about equivalent, or slightly below.

[Klem]

If you're talking about an original second focal plane NXS they line up closest optically with the new Vortex Viper PST Gen 2. .

How did you arrive at that bold statement?

Vipers are made in the Philippines. The NSX uses Japanese glass and assembled in Idaho. The reputation of Japanese glass is as good as it gets. Vortex's Razor line uses Japanese glass, which explains the 'HD' label.

There are a lot to scopes that are not listed in consumer specs. One critical factor is repeatability, which is the ability to hold zero in the shock of recoil. This affects precision which in turn affects accuracy. We like to think our group sizes are a function of the powder, bullets, neck tension, primers, jump-to-lands, lock time etc, but your scope's repeatability is also limiting factor in how tight the groups will ever be. How repeatable a Vortex Viper is to an NSX I will never know but my money is on the robustness of Nightforce any day. Little things like the use of titanium erector springs which means the tension never wears out (unlike cheaper metals). I also hear bench resters are returning to Nightforce for glass clarity after deciding March's quality control and warranty are a poor fit with their high price. That last claim is anecdotal however.

BR,
I would be careful of claims made regarding comparing Vortex with Nightforce, including mine, unless the poster has both. Vortex has a high reputation on this forum however my impression is that it is artificially inflated for some reason, probably to do with being good value for money. Shooters of AR's don't tend to buy the highest end scopes so I think you should let us know exactly what you want to do with it, with what gun, and what your budget is.

[centerfire]

How did you arrive at that bold statement?

Vipers are made in the Philippines. The NSX uses Japanese glass and assembled in Idaho. The reputation of Japanese glass is as good as it gets. Vortex's Razor line uses Japanese glass, which explains the 'HD' label.

There are a lot to scopes that are not listed in consumer specs. One critical factor is repeatability, which is the ability to hold zero in the shock of recoil. This affects precision which in turn affects accuracy. We like to think our group sizes are a function of the powder, bullets, neck tension, primers, jump-to-lands, lock time etc, but your scope's repeatability is also limiting factor in how tight the groups will ever be. How repeatable a Vortex Viper is to an NSX I will never know but my money is on the robustness of Nightforce any day. Little things like the use of titanium erector springs which means the tension never wears out (unlike cheaper metals). I also hear bench resters are returning to Nightforce for glass clarity after deciding March's quality control and warranty are a poor fit with their high price. That last claim is anecdotal however.

BR,
I would be careful of claims made regarding comparing Vortex with Nightforce, including mine, unless the poster has both. Vortex has a high reputation on this forum however my impression is that it is artificially inflated for some reason, probably to do with being good value for money. Shooters of AR's don't tend to buy the highest end scopes so I think you should let us know exactly what you want to do with it, with what gun, and what your budget is.

The NXS is made and assembled in Japan by LOW...which is also where the Razor HD is made and assembled (as well as other brands such as Bushnell ET, EOTech, Primary Arms Platinum, etc). Nightforce does not make the NXS themselves. I've owned both the NXS and the PST Gen 2, I no longer have either. Times change, even Chinesium scopes are getting good. I don't particularly like the NXS and have never been in love with how they work. Buy whatever you want but the reality is if the OP wants a Vortex equivalent, or slightly below equivalent, to the NXS in SFP he'll be looking at the PST Gen 2.

[BR17722]

BR1:

Want to compare optics? See what the top competitors are using. You may not buy one but at least you can see what company is in most demand by said competitors.

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/12/21/best-scope/

Just note you didn't say what you wanted the optic for, distances you are shooting, target characteristics, and about everything else that would lead someone to one optic over another.

LR55

Due to health and age I am relegated to "ambush" techniques for feral hogs. Best locations are about 40 to 80 yd distances. I have two Precision Firearms 6.5 Grendels, both with 16 inch barrels. The first one is almost as heavy as the Les Baer 20 inch 6.5 Grendel (an early one that is a true 6.5 Grendel). The second PF is much lighter and the Vortex 2.5-10 X 40 (?) will be moved to the lighter PF. For coyotes a "safe" shot is at most 200 yds in the flat Conservation Reserve Program fields due to the small size of the fields. The Nightforce 3.5-15 X 50 will be fine for coyotes. I will be purchasing an 18 inch barreled bolt action .308 Win for shooting "subsonic" ammunition. My guess is with my limitations of skill and health the .308 will be a 100 yd rifle with subsonic ammunition. The NXS 3.5-15 X 50 I have would work on either the heavy PF or on the .308. I need one more scope for either the heavy PF or the .308. I think I would like a 3-18 X ? or a 3-20/21 X ?. I am not finding anything that really appeals to me which is why I posed the questions here. It will be difficult to convince myself to buy a variable power riflescope that has a low power of 5. If everything goes perfectly a dozer or excavator can develop a 500 to 600 yd shooting lane but I would/could not be a frequent shooter there.

LR1955, thanks for the web address. I'm sure it will be interesting and informative.


BR17722

[Klem]

The NXS is made and assembled in Japan by LOW...

No, the NXS line is assembled in the US with Japanese glass (they also buy glass from Europe and China). 'Made in Japan' on the body of some NXS is because the main parts; the glass and main body are Japanese which is then assembled with other US parts in their Orofino factory, Idaho. Other NXS have 'Made in USA" etched on the tube which implies the majority of parts including the body are made locally made (everything except the glass). The NXS line started at the end of the 90's when Nightforce assembly moved from Seattle to Idaho. NXS has always been assembled in the US with parts coming from various different places. Ray Dennis who owns the company outsources glass manufacturing, coating and polishing to whoever can meet the specs. The SHV is the only Nightforce line completely assembled offshore (in Japan). This is their 'budget' line. Nightforce glass type and coatings are made to their specs, which will differ from the Vortex range. Just because Japanese glass comes from a few plants servicing the international scope industry doesn't mean it's all the same quality glass.

Both my NXS, purchased years apart are 'Made in the USA' (majority parts and assembled).


BR,
Your subsonic 308 is an interesting project. My thoughts are that the scope needed for that can even be a red dot. You won't be hunting subsonic beyond 150metres and more than likely 100metres or less will be typical. Also, the 308 has a lot of case space to fill to keep it at least 80%-full to mitigate the risk of flash-over and Secondary Explosion Effect (SEE). If you don't handload there's not much 308 factory subsonic out there. I have used the 308 Lapua 200gn factory subsonic with the blue primer and got very average results. The shape is a strange lock base design optimised for subsonic but it is an FMJ and acts like a monolith on flesh. RUAG (Switzerland) also make a 200gn 308 subsonic marketed under their 'Swiss P' commercial brand. I have seen it but never tried it.

You might be better off getting a 300Blackout which is the same weight and diameter bullet as your 308 but with a lot less case space to worry about. I settled on the 220gn Sierra Match Kings as although an FMJ they tumble on hitting flesh. Nosler have brought out a 200gn 30cal round nose with a green ballistic tip designed to open up but I can't seem to get them to group as tightly as the SMK's. Blackout is a better-suited 30cal for subsonic shooting than 308, unless you want the option of shooting supersonic out of the same gun.

Getting back to the scope for a subsonic, you don't need anything more than 5x and as long as the exit pupil is at least 7mm then anything more is wasted. Light-weight, compact scopes will be perfect.

[centerfire]

No, the NSX line is assembled in the US with Japanese glass. 'Made in Japan' on the body of some NSX is because the main parts; the glass and body are Japanese which is then assembled with other US parts in their Orofino factory, Idaho. A few of the NSX have 'Made in USA" which implies the majority of parts are made locally (everything except the glass). Prior to that the NSX was assembled in Adelaide, South Australia where the owner Ray Dennis founded the company. Their SHV is the only Nightforce line completely assembled offshore (in Japan). This is their 'budget' line. Nightforce glass type and coatings are made to their specs, which will differ from the Vortex range. Just because glass comes from a few Japanese plants servicing the international scope industry doesn't mean it's all the same quality glass.

I have two NSX and the only issue I have with them is the paint they use for the numbers on the turrets dulls with age and use, seemingly quicker than other scopes.

BR,
Your subsonic 308 is an interesting project. My thoughts are that the scope needed for that can even be a red dot. You won't be hunting subsonic beyond 150metres and more than likely 100metres or less will be typical. Also, the 308 has a lot of case space to fill to keep it at least 80%-full to mitigate the risk of flash-over and Secondary Explosion Effect (SEE). If you don't handload there's not much 308 factory subsonic out there. I have used the 308 Lapua 200gn factory subsonic with the blue tip and got very average results. The shape is a strange lock base design optimised for subsonic but it is an FMJ and acts like a monolith on flesh. You might be better off getting a 300Blackout which is the same weight and diameter of bullet as your 308 but with a lot less case space to worry about. I settled on the 220gn Sierra Match Kings as although an FMJ they tumble on hitting flesh. Nosler have brought out a 200gn 30cal round nose with a green ballistic tip designed to open up but I can't seem to get them to group as tightly as the SMK's.

Getting back to the scope for a subsonic, you don't need anything more than 5x and as long as the exit pupil is at least 7mm then anything more is wasted. Light-weight, compact scopes will be perfect.

Only the NXS F1 is/was assembled in the US. The rest of your post is a wonderful fairytale whispered on the winds by a slick marketing manager at a trade show somewhere. The USA marked NXS F1 w/zero stops were contract trials scopes. The ATACR wasn't around back then. NF does make scopes in the US, but not the 3-15x50 NXS. Either way, this isn't 2006 and the world moved on. You can buy a hell of a lot more scope for less than an NXS.

[Klem]

Only the NXS F1 is/was assembled in the US. The rest of your post is a wonderful fairytale whispered on the winds by a slick marketing manager at a trade show somewhere. The USA marked NXS F1 w/zero stops were contract trials scopes. The ATACR wasn't around back then. NF does make scopes in the US, but not the 3-15x50 NXS. Either way, this isn't 2006 and the world moved on. You can buy a hell of a lot more scope for less than an NXS.

Neither of my Made-in-USA NXS are F1's. Get your facts straight before you open your mouth to change feet.

As for scope prices and quality...You get what you pay for.

[centerfire]

Neither of my Made-in-USA NXS are F1's. Get your facts straight before you open your mouth to change feet.

As for scope prices and quality...You get what you pay for.

Not if you're buying a new NXS instead of a Razor. It's not even a bold statement. You sure took a lot of offense to my original statement, if NF is kicking out US made NXS you're going to have to do a bit better than flash a picture of a 15yo scope. Its been a while so maybe I'm mistaken on whether or not NF made a few regular NXS in the states but mine sure wasn't and neither were the dozens I've seen since. The made in Japan scopes are exactly that and the bit about assembling there here is BS. Either way, my original post stands and was exactly what the OP asked for.

[LR1955]

OK guys.

Back on topic.

First -- Someone can write Nightforce and ask if the scopes are made in the USA or overseas. I believe they are assembled in Orofino, Idaho.

Second -- the OP asked "Which Vortex riflescope is "about equal" to this Nighforce riflescope?", and "Which Vortex riflescope is "perhaps one step below" this Nightforce riflescope?"

He didn't ask where they were made and said he "preferred" 2nd Focal Plane, not that it was an absolute.

And now that we know his needs, I am sure a decent recommendation can be made.

So, make the recommendation if you guys have one.


LR55

[Klem]

My thoughts are, that Nightforce is as rugged as they come. They handle abuse and are designed to handle heavy calibres with proprietary epoxy joins and thick bodies, which are made to last. The Vortex Viper (made in the Philippines) is nowhere near the same quality as an NXS. Drag both scopes through the mud and bash them around for a year and see which one still works. Vortex's top of the line Razor is more likely to be on par with an NXS.

Centrefire,
When you resort to ad hominem you get the same medicine. Stick to the merits of the argument, not the person.

[LR1955]

My thoughts are, that Nightforce is as rugged as they come. They handle abuse and are designed to handle heavy calibres with proprietary epoxy joins and thick bodies, which are made to last. The Vortex Viper (made in the Philippines) is nowhere near the same quality as an NXS. Drag both scopes through the mud and bash them around for a year and see which one still works. Vortex's top of the line Razor is more likely to be on par with an NXS.

Centrefire,
When you resort to ad hominem you get the same medicine. Stick to the merits of the argument, not the person.

Klem:

Cut the crap. No need to make that comment to Centerfire at the end of your post and you know it. If you have a problem with Centerfire, write him a private message.

LR55

[snarkscarbine]

I wish everyone would quit acting like country of origin/assembly automatically determines glass/erector/whatever quality. Brand specification and quality control determines all of it. There are optic companies in the US that make garbage and optic companies in China that make incredibly high end stuff. What matters is who is determining the specs and what their QC ratios are. Can we please move on?

In terms of what the OP was actually trying to determine, I think the most direct comparison is the Razor G1, but there are too many differences between those two product lines. The only comparison between NF and Vortex that(in my opinion) could be somewhat reasonably made is the Razor G2s and the Atacr, but the Atacr is much better optical quality. That's my opinion after spending hours shooting with both scopes out to distance.

If you want an NXS, get it. It's a great scope. None of Vortex's sfp scopes will come close to it. The PST line does qualify as close below it in terms of features, but the G1 PSTs are pretty much what earned Vortex an iffy reputation. The Razor G2s are awesome, and the PST G2 is pretty impressive, but will take a lot to overcome the PST gen 1's bad reputation.

And before somebody says I'm ignit and probably just buy NCStar scopes, I have currently have multiple high-end German optics, and have spent significant time behind S&B PMIIs, Leupolds, Vortex Razor G2s, Bushnells, Sigs, Steiners, NF ATACRs, Minox ZP5s, blah blah blah.

[centerfire]

If the OP likes his NXS and wants another, someone on SH is selling a used 3-15x56 w/ MOA knobs for $1100. That's about the going rate that I've seen.