Scope and Mount Advice

[spencer]

Hi all ... so just got my AA 6.5G and it's also my first AR. I opted for the 18" hunter with the side charger and blade trigger. I'm a hunter first, but would like to spend some time on the 300-600 range of my club and wanted something that didn't kick like one of my .30 cal rifles (I know this is a 6.5G forum, but i'm a huge fan of the 300 WSM). So I'm basically looking for advice on a couple of things: (1) do quick-release scope mounts really work? Can i take a scope off my AR and replace it with a red-dot (or similar) and then put the scope back on with confidence that I'm still zeroed? And if so, can you point me towards a good setup? (2) What are some decent scope options for both hunting and long-range target? Some of these short and light "tactical" scopes that are like 3-20 and under 12 inches look pretty cool, but at $3-$4k I'm wondering if it's more than what i need. (3) What do i need to be thinking about when it comes to mounting a scope on an AR. I see lots of options that solve "common problems," but since this is my first AR i don't really know about those problems. Sorry for all the newby questions. I have read through other discussions but haven't really found anything this basic. Thanks all!

[cory]

This will really depend on your eye sight. For me out to 600 yards, a 2.5-10x is plenty. It also works great for hunting, so no need to switch. A 1-6x would probably suffice at that range.

As far as QD mounts, the quality mounts should give you a return of ~0.5 MOA. I think AAD will even guarantee it with their AR mount. The trick is consistency in mounting it. I like to apply a little forward pressure while I'm securing the mount.

[biodsl]

As far as QD mounts, the quality mounts should give you a return of ~0.5 MOA.

I've found this to be true for both my Larue and American Defense mounts. Bought the AD mount based in part on this 8451 Tactical review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYN3NT3UGBo

[bwaites]

Welcome! Search is your friend. Give us a budget and there will be lots of input!

[Klem]

My experience is with LaRue mounted scopes. They tend to be out by about 0.1Mil from the previous zero but never more. Being confident of no more than 1cm at 100M is good enough for me.

Agree with cory, forward pressure as you do up the levers in the same sequence each time.

Considerations mounting a scope on an AR.
The consensus seems to be to avoid mounting scopes forward of the receiver. Popular belief is that handguards are not stiff enough to guarantee repeatability. With this in mind and considering the length of typical scopes cantilevered mounts are the go.

Scopes end up higher on AR's compared to bolt actions. 2.5" scope axis above the barrel axis is not unusual. One implication of this is paying particular attention to canting, especially for your long 600yd shots.

As for what magnification and ratio works. For hunting and up to 600yds I would keep it all in proportion to your compact 18" AR platform. 2.5-10*32 or 42 is a nice size and will handle close-in shots and the longer shots, while not being a big heavy brick on your compact rifle. For 600yds if the club target is symetrically framed and the aiming mark is in the middle then it doesn't really matter what magnification you use. Target Rifle shooters for example use iron peep sights at 1,000yds and use the giant roundel as their aiming mark, or the corners of the square target itself. They consistently get and expect bullseyes using this method. Agree with Cory... 10 times will serve you well.

[tackdriver]

Another + for American Defense qd mounts, very pleased with mine

[am4966]

American Defense, Larue and Bobro mounts will all work for remounting. Scope all depends on you, some use 1-6, 2.5-8, 3-9, 2-10 and 3-15 and reticle is up to you. Burris, Bushnell, Leupold, Steiner and Vortex all make scopes that you'll be happy with.

[bwaites]

I have taken my Larue mounted scopes off my rifles, hand carried the scope while shipping the rifle across the country, put the scope back on, and shot sub 1/2 MOA groups with no discernible shift in POI. I'm not generally a fan boy, but I find it very hard to leave Larue mounts behind for AR's.

I know that a couple other similar mounts have similar results from discussing them with people I trust to be straight up.

Budget wise, you will get 90+ percent of the performance of a 2500 dollar scope if you buy a Vortex PST, and it may actually be closer to 95+ percent. The increasing cost for diminishing returns on scopes now seems to be around $1500. Go over that and you get better scopes, but you really don't get huge jumps in performance. They are better, but not 50% better, and seldom even 10% better. If you have to have the ultimate, by all means spend the $5000-6000 for a Schmidt&Bender, but the performance is not 20% better than Nightforce NXT or even a Vortex PST.

Of course, your mileage may vary!

IF I was a sniper, and my life absolutely depended on that 1% or 5% better resolution, I'd buy the best, price be damned, but I'm not, no one is shooting back at me, and lots of guys win 1000 yard matches shooting 10X scopes. My eyes arent that good anymore, so I like my 12-42 Benchrest for distances of 1000 yards and more, but they aren't absolutely necessary.

[spencer]

Thanks for the info everyone. Great places for me to start for sure! I've been a traditional bolt rifle guy for a long time, and even put a Schmidt & Bender on a rifle last year (clarity is ridiculous by the way - totally spoiled me and will no doubt cost me multiples of the price of that scope over the rest of my life). Great info and endorsements on the mounts too ... makes me feel a whole lot better about the entire concept. I know I want a relatively compact/light scope on this 18" AR, and (again spoiled), could see spending $1500-$2000 on a scope for this gun provided it was compact with a decent range of magnification. I have quite a few .30 cal setups that i dial in for 'point blank' giving me a 'hold on the shoulder and let if fly' shot out to about 300 yards. I would like to use this AR to get better at using features on the scope to dial in known distances, but also be able to find 'point blank' for hunting season (somehow I don't see myself calculating MOA while Mr. Big patiently waits for me in the middle of an open field). So call this AR setup my learning platform for long(ish) range shooting but also something I can take deer hunting (that's what the 6.5G is to me anyway). Keep the ideas coming. I'm a sponge!!

[LRRPF52]

I personally find that you need to really tighten down a lot of the QD mounts for them to stay solid through long shooting strings and temp shifts. I've seen several come loose during my courses, because they were not tightened down hard enough. When you get them that tight, they are very difficult to remove, so not really QD like you would expect.

The mount I have really come to like is the NightForce Unimount, especially for a lightweight hunter/target rifle.

NightForce also makes a SHV scope, and the 3-10x42 would be an excellent combo for your 18" Hunter. It's only 11.6" long, no frills, built like a tank, great glass, capped turrets.



You can get it from Midway right now for $873 with the MOAR reticle.

[Klem]

I have taken my Larue mounted scopes off my rifles, hand carried the scope while shipping the rifle across the country, put the scope back on, and shot sub 1/2 MOA groups with no discernible shift in POI. I'm not generally a fan boy, but I find it very hard to leave Larue mounts behind for AR's.
.

I hear you on the 'fan boy' jibe. Mark LaRue is the Donald Trump of the scope mount world. But if you can ignore all that rubbish and look at LaRue mounts without the logo it's top tier.

If you're talking Nightforce scopes and $1.5-$2K USD is your budget then their 2.5-10*42NSX is another good choice for your needs. Not stupidly priced like S&B and March and built to be compact. ruggedised, exposed turrets, Zero stop, illum etched reticle and side focus for medium - long range target shooting. Europtics are selling the various iterations between $1.4K for demo models up to $1.9K.
Seen here on a LaRue cantilever mount (not my gun)


If you are talking about delaying the shot at 300yds while working things out then perhaps you could jut go 'one minute of roo'. For larger game and if not using point blank range you could just remember two settings;

For example, 120Nosler BT;
100M = zeroed
200M = 0.8 Mils
300M = 2.0 Mils

For target shooting or small game obviously you will need to dial the exact come-ups but for 'Mr Big'.

For me the 223 is the easiest to remember. Using a Mildot reticle just use the stadia lines when in a hurry;
100M = zeroed
200M = 0.5 Mils
300M = 1.5 Mils
400M = 3.0 Mils

[EPeterson]

I have repeatedly taken off my scope with a Bobro mount from my Grendel. It has so close to return to zero that I can't tell the difference at 100yrds. I'm using a Viper 2.5-10x32 ffp and can recommend it for decent glass. I'll be using such a set up next week for caribou.

[LRRPF52]

I haven't seen the levers come loose, just the mount sliding on the longitudinal axis in-line with the rifle. They were still hitting plates, but the mounts were moving back and forth slightly. I've seen it several times now.

In all instances, it came down to not having the adjustable tension tight enough on the nuts.

[Klem]

I haven't seen the levers come loose, just the mount sliding on the longitudinal axis in-line with the rifle. They were still hitting plates, but the mounts were moving back and forth slightly. I've seen it several times now.

In all instances, it came down to not having the adjustable tension tight enough on the nuts.

Now that I have not seen. Good point.

[spencer]

Thank you LRRPF52 ... you're dialing me in! I was just looking at the Leopold Mark 6 3-18x44. I know folks on this forum keep telling me 10x is enough for 500-600 yard targets, but i'm not sure i'm there (yet). I like to use all of my 4-14x50 S&B at 300 yards, so thinking I'll also warm up to a little more zoom at longer ranges. Seems like the Leopold Mark 6 is about the same size as the KF SHV 3-10x42 (above) but gives me 18x. Sure, it's twice the money, but also twice the magnification and still about 12" overall. Anyone want to chime in on the Leopold? Reviews are solid. M5B2 vs M5C2 seems like an availability issue .. The C2 has lower profile turrets but the B2 is more widely available and about 20% cheaper ($2,000 vs $2,500).